BYU is a sign of failure as a church

[_harmony]

If we as members are truly living the gospel as taught in the LDS church, then we'd never send our children to BYU. Doing so is admitting we have failed as members and as parents.

Matt 5:16 tells us that we are to let our light shine before men, so that they will want to join us. We can't shine if we never go out into the world and if we refuse to send our children out. The missionary program is as close as we come to letting our light shine, and it's pretty pathetic in comparison to the numbers that are at the 3 BYU's.

If the church really wanted to take the gospel to the world as we are commanded, they'd sell the universities and offer parents no choice but to send our best and brightest, and all the rest too, to secular universities so their light would be noticed by the world. And they'd revamp the Institute program, so it wasn't insular but rather was an outreach program to nonmember students on college campuses.

[_Inconceivable]

I beg to differ.

18-29 year old Mormons are not ready to be out in the real world (missions are not real world, by the way). Their light is not bright enough for the darkness.

Or maybe they have not become white enough yet..

[_harmony]

I beg to differ.

18-29 year old Mormons are not ready to be out in the real world (missions are not real world, by the way). Their light is not bright enough for the darkness.

Or maybe they have not become white enough yet..

Then we have failed as parents and as a church, because there is no reason for any LDS 18 year old to not know the gospel. From birth, they are taught the gospel, in Primary, in Mutual, in Seminary and at home. How could any LDS youth aged 18 years not know the gospel enough to outshine anyone at a secular university?

BYU is all about circling the wagons. We are not commanded to circle the wagons. We are commanded to let our light shine, and BYU plays a large part in circumventing that commandment.

No wonder the church is under condemnation.

[_truth dancer]

I'm thinking most young people go to BYU to meet other young people. And since the LDS church is all about young people getting married and having a lot of children right away, perhaps BYU is actually quite successful?

;-)

~dancer~

[_charity]

Maybe all those bright 18-19 year olds would make individual impacts on individuals. But they wouldn't get the media exposure that BYU does as a group. But BYU is about education.

I know you were just posting tongue in cheek, by the way.

[_wenglund]

If we as members are truly living the gospel as taught in the LDS church, then we'd never send our children to BYU. Doing so is admitting we have failed as members and as parents.

Matt 5:16 tells us that we are to let our light shine before men, so that they will want to join us. We can't shine if we never go out into the world and if we refuse to send our children out. The missionary program is as close as we come to letting our light shine, and it's pretty pathetic in comparison to the numbers that are at the 3 BYU's.

If the church really wanted to take the gospel to the world as we are commanded, they'd sell the universities and offer parents no choice but to send our best and brightest, and all the rest too, to secular universities so their light would be noticed by the world. And they'd revamp the Institute program, so it wasn't insular but rather was an outreach program to nonmember students on college campuses.

I was under the impression that the primary purpose for attending universities was to get an education, not missionary work (the latter is what missions are for)--though I realize that the two purposes are not mutually exclusive. So, if a person, in consultation with their family, determines that the best place to get an education (secular and religious) or whatever is BYU, then I am not sure how such may reasonably be viewed as "failure" as members and parents.

Is harmony proposing to supplant her own personal judgement for that of individual students and parents?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_harmony]

TD, the three-fold mission of the church does not include providing a place for young people to meet so they can get married (unless you think that qualifies as 'perfecting the Saints'?). And by some calculations, that's a bust anyway, since not all temple marriages of BYU student stay together.

If there was no BYU, then all the LDS youth would have to go to secular schools. The world would be exposed to the light of LDS youth, thus fulfilling at least one of the three-fold missions of the church, not to mention fulfilling the commandment to let our light so shine.

BYU is a result of ethnocentric selfish thinking. God doesn't work that way. If the leaders truly believed that God loves all his children, not just his LDS children, they'd do away with all church-owned universities, and send out those approx 100,000 faithful youth to spread the gospel via their shining example. Just imagine the immense good that could be done!

Every single one of my temple married children met their spouse at a school far from BYU, so don't tell me it's hard to find temple-worthy marriage-minded young adults at secular schools.

Charity, are you seriously saying BYU is all about PR? Good grief, what a waste of tithing.

And I'm serious. BYU is not inspired, it is directly against the commandment of Matt 5:16, and contributes to the church being under condemnation.

[_harmony]

I was under the impression that the primary purpose for attending universities was to get an education, not missionary work (the latter is what missions are for)--though I realize that the two purposes are not mutually exclusive. So, if a person, in consultation with their family, determines that the best place to get an education (secular and religious) or whatever is BYU, then I am not sure how such may reasonably be viewed as "failure" as members and parents.

The three-fold mission of the church does not include providing a sheltered place to get a higher education, Wade. Just to remind you: the three-fold mission of the church is to preach the gospel to the whole world, perfect the Saints, and redeem the dead. Nowhere in there does it say "provide a a sheltered place for higher education" or "provide a place for young Saints to find a mate". Preaching the gospel to the whole world is of such overriding proportions, I'm surprised the leaders haven't picked up on this before. I mean, think about it: every year, sending out 100,000 young smart testimony bearing college students to show the world how wonderful the gospel is by being shining examples living among them. Wow.

BYU is not just a waste of tithing money. BYU is in direct opposition to Matt 5:16.

Is harmony proposing to supplant her own personal judgement for that of individual students and parents?

If there was no BYU, there would no decision to be made, except which secular school to send said students.

Try to think outside the box, Wade. Just this once.

[_charity]

BYU is a result of ethnocentric selfish thinking. God doesn't work that way. If the leaders truly believed that God loves all his children, not just his LDS children, they'd do away with all church-owned universities, and send out those approx 100,000 faithful youth to spread the gospel via their shining example. Just imagine the immense good that could be done!

I think you have PR and shining example confused. Anytime someone makes a positive comment about BYU or the Church because of the actions of one or a group, that is a "shining example." If that positive comment occurs on TV where a sportscaster talks about how young LDS men are so dedicated to their religion they interrupt their sports careers to go on missions, and how high the percentage of BYU's football team are RM's and it goes to 23 million homes, that is a "shining example." How long would it take for one kid at one secular school to reach 23 million people?

That is not a waste of tithing.

And I'm serious. BYU is not inspired, it is directly against the commandment of Matt 5:16, and contributes to the church being under condemnation.

BYU is carrying out the commission of Matt 5:16. And what is your source for the Church being under condemnation? The Book of Harmony 5:1?

[_wenglund]

I was under the impression that the primary purpose for attending universities was to get an education, not missionary work (the latter is what missions are for)--though I realize that the two purposes are not mutually exclusive. So, if a person, in consultation with their family, determines that the best place to get an education (secular and religious) or whatever is BYU, then I am not sure how such may reasonably be viewed as "failure" as members and parents.

The three-fold mission of the church does not include providing a sheltered place to get a higher education, Wade. Just to remind you: the three-fold mission of the church is to preach the gospel to the whole world, perfect the Saints, and redeem the dead. Nowhere in there does it say "provide a a sheltered place for higher education" or "provide a place for young Saints to find a mate". Preaching the gospel to the whole world is of such overriding proportions, I'm surprised the leaders haven't picked up on this before. I mean, think about it: every year, sending out 100,000 young smart testimony bearing college students to show the world how wonderful the gospel is by being shining examples living among them. Wow.

BYU is not just a waste of tithing money. BYU is in direct opposition to Matt 5:16.

Were the intent behind establishing BYU to have been purely religious in nature--i.e. fulfilling the threefold mission of the Church, then what you suggest may make sense. However, given that the curriculum at BYU is, by design, overwhelmingly secular in nature, then what you suggest doesn't make sense. In other words, you are mistakingly, and ironically, attepting to confine BYU to a purely religious box.

Is harmony proposing to supplant her own personal judgement for that of individual students and parents?

If there was no BYU, there would no decision to be made, except which secular school to send said students.

Try to think outside the box, Wade. Just this once.

I'll take that as a tacit "yes" in response to my question.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-