DiscussMormonism.com

I was looking through FamilySearch.com and it appears that Heber C Kimball had a large number of women sealed to him.

The family information is really quite interesting. I'll point out a few in particular.

The first is HCK and Mary Ellen Harris ABLE
They had a son, Peter KIMBALL, born approx 1827.

Then we have HCK and Ruth Amelia REESE.
Notice we have Susannah H. KIMBALL, born approx 1827.
Then Jacob R. KIMBALL, born approx 1829
Then Enoch H. KIMBALL, born approx 1831

Then, HCK and Lucy WALKER
Rachel Sylvia KIMBALL born Jan 1846 in Nauvoo.

Also, HCK and Ellen (Aagaat) SANDERS
They had 4 children between 1827 and 1835.

If we are to believe that Joseph Smith wasn't having sex with his wives, why was Heber C Kimball procreating with his wives?

That data is clearly incorrect, otherwise it would have Heber practicing polygamy years before the Book of Mormon was published and he met Joseph. Heber didn't start the practice until after Joseph asked him for Vilate, his wife, in 1841.

Scottie, this is a great point I've never seen explored before! Kudos! Wonder how many other of Joseph Smith' contemporaries engaging in secret plural marriage were having children with those wives?

Here's one: Brigham Young married Lucy Ann Decker June 15, 1842. Their first child, Brigham Heber Young, was born June 19, 1845. Admittedly this birth was AFTER Joseph Smith' death, but it's bizarre to pretend that BY suddenly changed the way polygamy had been taught to him the minute Joseph Smith died.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/ ... esults.asp

This is really a great point, scottie. Again, kudos!!

You're right, John, those dates must be off. I still think it's a good idea that can be explored.

I like this data; children born in Nauvoo to Mormons ten years before Mormons settled Nauvoo.

The Church does not monitor this data; members and non-members alike may submit. The Church looks at it only when a descendant complains.

Aside from the problematic dates, the point that I think ought to be explored is that contemporaries of Joseph Smith who were also practicing polygamy as they were taught by the still-living Joseph Smith were having offspring with their wives.

According to Compton, Heber married Sarah Peake Noon in early 1842, upon instructions of Joseph Smith who also told him to keep it a secret from Vilate. Sarah had her first child with Heber around the same time Vilate gave birth to Charles, in Jan. 1843.

Usually when critics argue this point, they're using the way polygamy was practiced openly in Utah to support the assertion that Joseph Smith taught his followers that plural marriage meant sexual rights. But I think it's an even stronger argument when it can be shown that - during Joseph Smith lifetime - the men he taught about polygamy were obviously having sex with their plural wives. But we're supposed to believe Joseph Smith didn't?

Sex Name
M Peter KIMBALL (AFN:8R65-L8) Pedigree

Born: 19 Dec 1855

Sex Name
F Susanna R. KIMBALL (AFN:8R66-VR) Pedigree

Born: 10 Jul 1851

Sex Name
F Rachel Sylvia KIMBALL (AFN:528G-4Q) Pedigree

Born: Jan 1846 Place: Nauvoo Il
Died: 22 Dec 1847

by the way, all the Kimball descendants have had their election and calling made sure via the bargain for Helen Marr Kimball.

by the way, all the Kimball descendants have had their election and calling made sure via the bargain for Helen Marr Kimball.

God's into bartering!

beastie wrote:Aside from the problematic dates, the point that I think ought to be explored is that contemporaries of Joseph Smith who were also practicing polygamy as they were taught by the still-living Joseph Smith were having offspring with their wives.

According to Compton, Heber married Sarah Peake Noon in early 1842, upon instructions of Joseph Smith who also told him to keep it a secret from Vilate. Sarah had her first child with Heber around the same time Vilate gave birth to Charles, in Jan. 1843.

Usually when critics argue this point, they're using the way polygamy was practiced openly in Utah to support the assertion that Joseph Smith taught his followers that plural marriage meant sexual rights. But I think it's an even stronger argument when it can be shown that - during Joseph Smith lifetime - the men he taught about polygamy were obviously having sex with their plural wives. But we're supposed to believe Joseph Smith didn't?

I doubt any member knowledgeable in the area will deny the fact that Joseph Smith had connubial relationships with most of his wives. After all, the church and the Deseret News went to great lengths to prove this point in the 1800s during a legal dispute with the Reorganized Church. The real question is whether he had relations with wives who were married to other men. Of that, I am not convinced, and think that he and others understood the difference between time and eternity. Wilford Woodruff halted these dynastic marriages in 1894, I believe; probably more in reaction to negative perceptions in light of the amnesty provided the Church than anything else.

beastie wrote:

by the way, all the Kimball descendants have had their election and calling made sure via the bargain for Helen Marr Kimball.

God's into bartering!

This works out well for me.

Clarrisa Crissy Cutler, wife #43
Married to HCK Dec 29, 1845 at 21 years of age

My gr,gr,gr,grandmother.