I wore a burka today.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

It is impossible to derive equality from the sentence you quoted in the Proclamation. Not when one presides over others.

Many women struggle with feeling like second class citizens in the church, and many women struggle with being treated like crap because their men feel they have every right to control all things because God has given them divine power. If you never experienced that, you're lucky. But I've lived it and seen it enough within the church to know that it's not a small problem. I am not suggesting that this is true for ALL couples in the church. But it is a problem, and not a small one. LDS.org has many articles about unrighteous dominion should you care to do a search in the Ensign articles.

I knew that I wasn't equal to men in the church's eyes when I was not allowed to go to the temple to take out my endowments because I was first required to get permission in writing from my never-Mormon husband, which he didn't grant, so therefore I was not given a recommend. Period. So this equality you speak of is foreign to me, and not based on reality.

You are deluding yourself if you think men and women are equal in the church.

When I use the word preside I ascribe the scriptural meaning attached to that power and that is what I described.

Those men are going to hell and haven't read the scriptures. Those women also need to read the scriptures. There is a problem is some marriages in the Church where men exercise unrighteous dominion. Just like there are some where women do the same thing. Everything in the Church is calculated to root that kind of thing out. Blaming it on the Church is ridiculous. Men have been abusing women since the beginning of time. Women have been doing likewise to men. Of course it happens some within the Church. The Church defines this activity though. They call it sin.

Then I am deluded. Or you are. One of the two.

Sorry, but everything in the Mormon church is calculated to keep men in power. The entire system is set up this way. All of it. There is nothing being calculated to change the unequal distribution of power. Nothing. I blame the leadership at the head of the church, not the church itself. I also blame those leaders at the local level, as well as men like you, who don't see it for the harmful thing that it is as they continue to promote the practice and doctrine of keeping women subordinate.

[_Equality]

Nehor sounds just like all the Muslims I talk to, who say men and women in Islam are complete equals. Yes, the women in burkas walking 20 feet behind the men carrying the casket of the teenage girls murdered by their father for defying him by wearing western clothing styles (in Lewisville, Texas) are every bit as equal to any Muslim man. Just like the women veiling their faces in the temple promising to hearken to their husbands are every bit as equal to men in the Mormon church because, well, "preside" doesn't really mean preside any more than "horse" means horse.

Hey, I grew up in Lewisville. Missed that news.

Then where is the unfairness in the LDS faith? Where is the burka? The forcing people to walk behind? What is holding women back?

The differences between the two are of degree, not kind.

[_The Nehor]

Sorry, but everything in the Mormon church is calculated to keep men in power. The entire system is set up this way. All of it. There is nothing being calculated to change the unequal distribution of power. Nothing. I blame the leadership at the head of the church, not the church itself. I also blame those leaders at the local level, as well as men like you, who don't see it for the harmful thing that it is as they continue to promote the practice and doctrine of keeping women subordinate.

I disagree with everything you say. It is not calculated to keep men in power. I can't think of a single moment in my life where I tried to make a woman subordinate to me nor have I seen my leaders act to create such a situation. The doctrine is what I explained above: self-sacrifice, charity, respect, and longsuffering. How does this make anyone subordinate?

[_The Nehor]

The differences between the two are of degree, not kind.

Okay, what's the repression? A veil worn briefly for symbolic purposes (which I'm guessing you don't understand)? Not seeing it in kind either.

[_Equality]

Then I am deluded. Or you are. One of the two.

I know where my vote lies.

[_harmony]

I disagree with everything you say. It is not calculated to keep men in power. I can't think of a single moment in my life where I tried to make a woman subordinate to me nor have I seen my leaders act to create such a situation. The doctrine is what I explained above: self-sacrifice, charity, respect, and longsuffering. How does this make anyone subordinate?

Sit on the left side of the aisle in the temple, Nehor. Veil your face. Then return and report how that feels.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Sorry, but everything in the Mormon church is calculated to keep men in power. The entire system is set up this way. All of it. There is nothing being calculated to change the unequal distribution of power. Nothing. I blame the leadership at the head of the church, not the church itself. I also blame those leaders at the local level, as well as men like you, who don't see it for the harmful thing that it is as they continue to promote the practice and doctrine of keeping women subordinate.

I disagree with everything you say. It is not calculated to keep men in power. I can't think of a single moment in my life where I tried to make a woman subordinate to me nor have I seen my leaders act to create such a situation. The doctrine is what I explained above: self-sacrifice, charity, respect, and longsuffering. How does this make anyone subordinate?

Sunday morning I walk through the chapel doors, greeted by Brother Jones who hands me a program. I find my usual pew and sit with my children and my dad who's visiting. We hear a beautiful prelude hymn, “O My Father” being played by the organist. I open my Book of Mormon to prepare for my lesson and read through the story of Alma and the sons of Mosiah. My daughter asks me who I'm reading about, and then she asks who my favorite women in the Book of Mormon are. I struggle to think of any, but I assure her there must be some. The meeting begins, and I listen intently to the words of the opening prayer, “Our dear Father in Heaven…” ending with “in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.” The bishop’s first counselor, Brother Smith, stands and conducts the meeting, announcing the individuals who accepted new callings by the bishop. He announces the presence of our High Councilman, who gets up and reads a message from the men of the Stake Presidency.

We sing the hymn, “Praise to the Man” after which the bishop stands and invites 16 year old Chad Duncan to the podium, to announce that he has interviewed Chad and found him worthy to be ordained to the office of a Priest in the Aaronic Priesthood. Big smiles and handshakes ensue. Chad's twin sister sits in front of me with her mother, watching her brother be congratulated for his achievement.

I see Brother Harris slowly walk up the aisle, counting the number of people in attendance. My daughter asks me if she can get up and go get a drink. I tell her we don't walk around during sacrament meeting, it's not reverent. She stares at Brother Harris with a glare.

Next we sing the sacrament hymn, “O God, the Eternal Father” after which I watch as the Aaronic-priesthood-bearing boys prepare, bless, and pass the sacrament. During the quiet time of the passing of the sacrament, my father leans over my 7 year old daughter and whispers to my 11 year old son, “That’ll be YOU in a year, son, passing the sacrament and holding the priesthood so well like those boys. See how reverently they perform their sacred duty?” Proud smiles for my son while Grandpa reaches behind my daughter's head to pat him on the back.

Next comes a talk by Brother Green on the subject of fathers taken from “The Family, a Proclamation to the World.” He explains how fathers are to preside over their families using their priesthood as a sacred power to act in God’s name, which should not be taken lightly, it is That Important. He tells us all that abusing this awesome power and exercising unrighteous dominion over women and children is not pleasing in the Lord’s eyes. Men are instead supposed to use their power to help and serve others, and treat their women as if they are equal to men. As head of the household and having the holy priesthood power bestowed upon you, you men must remember you have a grave responsibility to make sure that you don’t abuse the special power you hold. You must remember that women are daughters of God. They have worth in God’s eyes, and you must always remember to grant them respect and equality and treat them as if they have worth. God has given you your sweet wife as a helpmeet and a friend, so treat her well! If you don't then you have forgotten what the Priesthood Power means! I see the bishop smile and nod. Brother Green ends his talk in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. I'm expected to say "Amen."

The next speaker teaches that if we follow God’s plan for us, we can become gods and goddesses someday over our own worlds. I find myself wondering what it means to be a goddess ~ considering I’ve never heard about my Heavenly Mother at all, beyond learning that there is one, even though we know nothing about her. But for some reason it was set up by God so I can only learn about God and only know what He is like from all the scriptures and the conference talks and doctrine that focus on just Him. I wonder to myself, does this mean that if I make it to the Celestial Kingdom and become a Goddess with my husband as God, I could also be as unmentionable as our Heavenly Mother is? Will our children be taught by Him to pray to Him only and never think of me? Will they be told to worship Him in all they do, and strive to be like Jesus (if that’s how our world plays out), but not encouraged to strive to be more like my girls, who are rarely mentioned in holy scripture? Will my spirit children be taught by my husband that He is all-knowing and will be the final judge of their hearts and lives in the end?

Apparently I am supposed to strive in this life to be like Jesus. For some reason I’ve been given a male as my standard of who to emulate...why don’t I have a woman as my standard if gender differences and gender roles are truly such an important part of God's Plan?

Do the men in charge of the church honestly think that becoming an unmentionable goddess is a dream come true for women??? I stand all amazed.

I sit there contemplating this while looking at all the men sitting in their places of power over the congregation.

The meeting ends with the closing hymn, “How Great Thou Art,” followed by Brother Tallmadge saying a closing prayer to our Heavenly Father, ending in the name of Jesus Christ.

I rush to get to the nursery before parents start delivering their children into my care for the next two hours.

. . . . .

When I hear my daughter later that day telling her brother he’s lucky to be a boy, I cry.

[_Equality]

The differences between the two are of degree, not kind.

Okay, what's the repression? A veil worn briefly for symbolic purposes (which I'm guessing you don't understand)? Not seeing it in kind either.

Why do you guess that? Sounds like an uninformed guess, Brother Nehor. The "kind" is in the shared doctrines that, among other things: (1) God prescribes strict roles along gender lines, roles which give preference to men in ecclesiastical leadership and leadership in society; (2) men are to preside over women in the home and women are to submit their husbands when their husbands invoke the alleged imprimatur of deity; (3) women are responsible for the sexual misconduct of men, including abusers, and should be subject to strict codes of dress and behavior dictated by men (again claiming divine authority for the rules they impose); and (4) the primary raison d'etre for a woman is to birth babies and raise them in the religion into which they were born.

That's for starters. There is, of course, much more. As I said, Mormonism and Islam are in alignment in principle on these things. The biggest difference is that, at least with respect to the branch of Mormonism headed by Thomas Monson, women generally have been the beneficiaries of the societal advances made in the western democracies in the 20th century (advances which were opposed every step of the way by LDS leaders) and the church has largely accommodated social trends (albeit slowly). The same can't be said for many smaller branches of Mormonism (e.g., the FLDS church, which follows Mormon doctrine more closely on gender issues than the Monsonite branch), where we see more starkly portrayed the consequences of putting into practice that which has been preached and published as authoritative Mormon doctrine over the last 178 years.

[_The Nehor]

You seriously go through Church thinking like that?

They have worth in God’s eyes, and you must always remember to grant them respect and equality and treat them as if they have worth.

I also doubt anyone would say this.

You seriously think that a goddess sits by and does nothing? Of course you're involved. The two of you have become perfectly one. She is as busy as he is. I could explain in bare-bone terms how this works but if this is what you hear in Sacrament Meeting you haven't learned enough to get it at all.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

You seriously go through Church thinking like that?

They have worth in God’s eyes, and you must always remember to grant them respect and equality and treat them as if they have worth.

I also doubt anyone would say this.

You seriously think that a goddess sits by and does nothing? Of course you're involved. The two of you have become perfectly one. She is as busy as he is. I could explain in bare-bone terms how this works but if this is what you hear in Sacrament Meeting you haven't learned enough to get it at all.

That's it? That's all you can come up with? That right there is more telling than anything else you've said all day.