Interesting interview in today's Des News with Whitney Clayton, the Seventy who was media pointman in the Church's support of Prop. 8. Here's a blurb from the article suggesting that members who publicly opposed Prop. 8 could be getting calls from their local leaders:
When asked about whether Latter-day Saints who publicly opposed Prop. 8 would be subject to some kind of church discipline, Elder Clayton said those judgments are left up to local bishops and stake presidents and the particular circumstances involved.
"All we can say is that the LDS Church gives way to the spiritual discernment of local leaders in the handling of any matter that might involve the kind of question you have raised."
Sounds ominous. Here's the link to the full article:
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
What he says I believe is probably true. But what most don't know who read this article, is about a "small clipping service" that secretly informs bishops about the goings-on and apply invisible pressure to achieve their ends.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
"All we can say is that the LDS Church gives way to the spiritual discernment of local leaders in the handling of any matter that might involve the kind of question you have raised."
Well can local leaders discipline someone for mere vocal opposition, or not? I just do not believe this is completely up to personal spiritual discernment. Not in the LDS church.
Local leaders in Australia didn't excommunicate Simon Southerton for vocal opposition. They dug up dirt on him. Local leaders in Utah Valley didn't excommunicate Quinn for vocal opposition. They dug up dirt on him.
Watch out, Sethbag!
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
I cannot think of a more worser PR move for the Church than for them to start disciplining Prop 8 opponents.
I sincerely hope they do it.
"Christian anti-Mormons are no different than that wonderful old man down the street who turns out to be a child molester." - Obiwan, nutjob Mormon apologist - Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm
Wow. He could've just chuckled and said, "No, of course not. If you visit mormonapologetics.com, you will learn that Latter-Day Saints are a diverse group of people, free to disagree with the brethren on social and political issues as long as they maintain their testimony in the core doctrines of the church. The idea that LDS leaders would discipline members over political issues is an old anti-mormon lie."
Instead he gives local leaders free reign.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
I really wish I would have tested this. I should have put up a 'no to prop 8' sign in my yard in the middle of utah county. Since I'm still technically on the rolls of the church, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
I'm actually getting closer and closer to sending in a resignation letter, so I'm not too worried about it. I'm still just worried about how my wife would react - that's about the only thing stopping me. But I've already resolved that if I ever were summoned to a court of love I would bring a resignation letter with me, give it to them at the start of the meeting, and then leave.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Dwight Frye wrote:I cannot think of a more worser PR move for the Church than for them to start disciplining Prop 8 opponents.
I sincerely hope they do it.
I sometimes wonder if there is a mole inside the Church directing them to make the most stupid PR moves they possibly can. The aftershocks of this one are going to be felt in the Church for many years to come. The most powerful "anti-Mormons" wear dark suits and work in the COB.
That lawyer that used to work in crocket's law firm?
Is it just me or does it seem odd that the rules and punishment vary between bishops?
... our church isn't true, but we have to keep up appearances so we don't get shunned by our friends and family, fired from our jobs, kicked out of our homes, ... Please don't tell on me. ~maklelan
I'm actually getting closer and closer to sending in a resignation letter, so I'm not too worried about it. I'm still just worried about how my wife would react - that's about the only thing stopping me. But I've already resolved that if I ever were summoned to a court of love I would bring a resignation letter with me, give it to them at the start of the meeting, and then leave.
I am writing my letter of resignation now. It will break my mother's heart, but I feel like it is the right thing for me to do.