Was Nephi likeable?

[_Euthyphro]

Nephi of the Book of Mormon introduces himself describing himself in part thus:

[...]having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God,[...]

He goes on to say that he's just like dear ol' dad with whom his neighbors in Jerusalem are fed up on account of his constant prophesying of doom and gloom because of their wickedness. He introduces his brothers as hard-hearted stiff-necked murmurers who were unaware of God's workings with their father.

He tells us God himself promised his future would be prosperous and his brothers would be cut off from God's presence and Nephi would become their teacher and ruler.

All that in the first two chapters.

Later we see just what life would be like being "ruled" by Nephi and it's not fun. Laman and Lemuel, his two-dimensional foils, get a break and convince Ishmael and his family to join their zany adventures in the desert. (For some reason Ishmael is persuaded by the argument that they need his daughters for "seed" for a new civilization.) A short time later they throw a party. That's all, just a party perhaps to celebrate the fact that life is better with willing women at your side. Nephi steps in to say, woah! We can't be having parties when we're supposed to be servants of the Lord.

Okay, this is going longer than I wanted but hopefully you get the idea. Few times in the Book of Mormon did Nephi deal with anyone who wasn't in on the God-is-on-our-side gag who thought Nephi was just swell.

What's the message here? Is emulating Nephi a good idea?

[_zeezrom]

My opinion after reading JSPapers Vol. I is that Nephi is autobiographical of Joseph Smith. It is what Joseph would like to have been in the early days. I think his views changed somewhat in Nauvoo.

[_Scottie]

You raise a good point. If you're not perfect, you're wicked in Nephi's eyes.

[_harmony]

Nephi reminds me of a few people who shall not be named. Self righteous prick.

[_The Nehor]

Nephi of the Book of Mormon introduces himself describing himself in part thus:

[...]having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God,[...]

Standard opening to an autobiographical account in his culture.

He goes on to say that he's just like dear ol' dad with whom his neighbors in Jerusalem are fed up on account of his constant prophesying of doom and gloom because of their wickedness. He introduces his brothers as hard-hearted stiff-necked murmurers who were unaware of God's workings with their father.

What doom and gloom? Lehi was preaching about the Messiah and that people should go along with Jeremiah and surrender to Babylon rather then being occupied and destroyed by them.

He tells us God himself promised his future would be prosperous and his brothers would be cut off from God's presence and Nephi would become their teacher and ruler.

Prosperous? Not really. Once you get to the vision of the Tree of Life Nephi sees that his people are going to get wiped out.

Later we see just what life would be like being "ruled" by Nephi and it's not fun. Laman and Lemuel, his two-dimensional foils, get a break and convince Ishmael and his family to join their zany adventures in the desert. (For some reason Ishmael is persuaded by the argument that they need his daughters for "seed" for a new civilization.) A short time later they throw a party. That's all, just a party perhaps to celebrate the fact that life is better with willing women at your side. Nephi steps in to say, woah! We can't be having parties when we're supposed to be servants of the Lord.

You haven't read the book lately have you? The 'party' was years later on the ship. This incident was several of them deciding they should go home instead. Nephi pointed out the dangers in this course but told them if they want to go then go. Then they got ready to kill him.

Hardly an innocent party.

Okay, this is going longer than I wanted but hopefully you get the idea. Few times in the Book of Mormon did Nephi deal with anyone who wasn't in on the God-is-on-our-side gag who thought Nephi was just swell.

Except that Nephi who rebuked himself a few times.

What's the message here? Is emulating Nephi a good idea?

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you try this again.

[_The Nehor]

You raise a good point. If you're not perfect, you're wicked in Nephi's eyes.

But he mentioned that he was imperfect.

????

[_MCB]

You haven't read the book lately have you? The 'party' was years later on the ship. This incident was several of them deciding they should go home instead. Nephi pointed out the dangers in this course but told them if they want to go then go. Then they got ready to kill him.

You are right. Sounds a bit like the attempted mutiny aboard the Pinta, Nina, and Santa Maria.

I found Korihor to be much more likeable.

[_Euthyphro]

What doom and gloom? Lehi was preaching about the Messiah and that people should go along with Jeremiah and surrender to Babylon rather then being occupied and destroyed by them.

This doom and gloom:

13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.

Prosperous? Not really. Once you get to the vision of the Tree of Life Nephi sees that his people are going to get wiped out.

20 And inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper, and shall be led to a land of promise; yea, even a land which I have prepared for you; yea, a land which is choice above all other lands.
21 And inasmuch as thy brethren shall rebel against thee, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord.
22 And inasmuch as thou shalt keep my commandments, thou shalt be made a ruler and a teacher over thy brethren.

You haven't read the book lately have you? The 'party' was years later on the ship. This incident was several of them deciding they should go home instead. Nephi pointed out the dangers in this course but told them if they want to go then go. Then they got ready to kill him.

Hardly an innocent party.

The party started out this way:

9 And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.

So they danced and sang and were "rude". Some posters here had better watch out for God's wrath if that's all it takes to piss him off. Oh, and their response to his mouthing off was to bind him, not kill him.

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you try this again.

When I said "a short time later", my timeline was off, but the details weren't and the basic premise is still sound. Nephi was kind of a dick. As we can see you're not exactly batting 1000 factwise.

[_The Nehor]

You are right. Sounds a bit like the attempted mutiny aboard the Pinta, Nina, and Santa Maria.

I really need to get around to reading a good Columbus biography. I'm plowing through Clausewitz right now; I should look around when I'm done.

I found Korihor to be much more likeable.

I find it hard to picture Korihor as anything but a weaselly guy. He backtracks, lies, and comes across to me as a bit of a nut. Of the three anti-Christs the only one I have any sympathy for it all is Sherem. Nehor and Korihor seem like gits.

[_The Nehor]

This doom and gloom:

13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.

A small part of the message and while it might seem doomy and gloomy it was also spot on accurate. Most of the people he was talking to would be in Babylon within the decade.

20 And inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper, and shall be led to a land of promise; yea, even a land which I have prepared for you; yea, a land which is choice above all other lands.
21 And inasmuch as thy brethren shall rebel against thee, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord.
22 And inasmuch as thou shalt keep my commandments, thou shalt be made a ruler and a teacher over thy brethren.

Did he teach this to them?

The party started out this way:

9 And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.

So they danced and sang and were "rude". Some posters here had better watch out for God's wrath if that's all it takes to piss him off. Oh, and their response to his mouthing off was to bind him, not kill him.

Which incident are you talking about? The one you got the ship incident confused with or the ship one? If the one in the desert tying someone up in the desert and leaving them there is a death sentence. If you've got the incidents sorted out now and meant the ship I am aware of that. I wasn't talking about the ship incident.

If you want me to tell you that violating the laws of God in that way is okay I'm not going to. I imagine though what really made God act was their response to Nephi's rebuke. I don't know about where you come from but where I come from no rebuke justifies tying someone up with cords for four days.

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you try this again.

When I said "a short time later", my timeline was off, but the details weren't and the basic premise is still sound. Nephi was kind of a dick. As we can see you're not exactly batting 1000 factwise.

[/quote]

Actually I got my facts right; you just misread what I said.

I also disagree with your characterization. I don't think that a 'sober' rebuke for bad behavior merits their reaction. You also may want to look into the history of the word 'rude' and see what it meant in the 1800's when the book was first translated.

And yeah, if you're going to go on a religious expedition to set up a Zion society in the wilderness you are expected to behave. If they didn't want to, they should have stayed home.