Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

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_beastie
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Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _beastie »

It has to be recognized that it is nearly impossible to diagnose a dead person with a mental disorder with 100% accuracy. This will always remain speculative. But I have thought a lot about the question, and saved some old posts I made on the matter that I’ll share again. Since this is a compilation of a couple of posts, there is some repetition.

I do believe there is some reason to believe that it is possible Joseph Smith had bipolar, although I do not believe the evidence is so overwhelming that anyone should feel compelled to believe as much. I think others have made a very persuasive case that Joseph Smith did have some form of narcissism, although narcissism is part and parcel of bipolar mania. I think some of the narcissism was so extreme, liking having himself crowned “king”, that it is more indicative of bipolar mania than simple narcissism. In addition, the fact that, while supposedly having to be forced to practice polygamy at sword-point, he married a high number of young women in a very short period of time could indicate the hyper-sexuality and poor decision making that is also hallmarks of bipolar mania. Moreover, his youngest son, David, appears to have suffered from severe bipolar to the point of being institutionalized. Bipolar is hereditary.

It is more challenging to find instances of depression that could indicate bipolar instead of a logical reaction to a depressing situation. This would be harder to prove in any historical figure, not just Joseph Smith, because a bipolar depressed individual normally is barely capable of movement, and often masks the depression as a physical illness – and they do feel physically ill. It’s not just being down in the dumps, although some milder forms of bipolar could be described more in that fashion. So these people are fairly incapacitated, and aren’t going to be engaged in the type of notable activities that would become historical footnotes, while manic behavior would. But I did analyze Joseph Smith’s diaries and journals for any clues in that regard, and I think there are some. I put these together in previous posts I made on the subject and will share them here. by the way, my ex-husband and one of my sons suffer from bi-polar, so I sometimes refer to behavior I have seen in them, in comparison to Joseph Smith.

In Joseph Smith’ own handwriting he recorded this:

“November 19th/AD 1833/ From the 13th untill this date nothing of note has transpired since the great sign in the heavins. This day my heart is somewhat sorrowfull but I feel to trust in the Lord the God of Jacob. I have learned in my travels that man is trecherous and selfish but few excepted.” (From Faulring’s An American Prophet’s Records, page 14)


Joseph Smith certainly had many critics, sometimes violent ones, but he was also surrounded by faithful supporters and family throughout his life. Certainly his mind was in a dark state the day he declared that man is “trecherous and selfish but few excepted”. I remember very similar statements from both my exhusband and son during their dark periods. People with bipolar depression tend to catastrophize and exaggerate, so while a non bipolar depressed individual would be able to recognize that yes, he/she is currently having a rough time and may have been mistreated by someone, there have been other faithful friends and family around to help out, a person in a depressed bipolar state begins to see the entire world as a dark and threatening place, and appears incapable of remembering or recognizing evidence that shows there have always been some people who support and love that individual. So a person with bipolar would be very inclined to make generalizations such as “man is treacherous and selfish but few excepted”.

And yes, of course, human beings feel depressed when things go badly. But most human beings also do not claim to be visited by heavenly beings, to hear the voice of the Lord, to see angels, crown themselves king, run for president, and marry thirty odd women. We have to look at these evidences in the context of his other behavior.


I read Scott Faulring’s An American Prophet’s Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith. Most of it was dreadfully boring, as most journals/diaries are, but I was taking notes of events/statements that could be indicative of either bipolar mania or depression.

Of course, I will state one more time, that this will always remain purely speculative. We are talking about a dead man, and have no access to his friends or families to clarify these questions. But it’s still interesting, although speculative.

Some of the earlier records were actually written by Joseph Smith himself. These tended to be more revealing in terms of possible depression. This makes sense – writing by oneself gives a feeling of intimacy and privacy that is no longer present when dictating to a scribe. Once scribes became involved, possible evidence of depression became more indirect. For example, noting periods of illness with vague or no symptoms listed. In my personal experience, it is quite common for sufferers of bipolar to attribute their inability to function during depressions to vague illnesses. Of course, why would they even try to explain what’s going on in their heads to a third party?

So, in my opinion, the best evidence of possible bipolar depression comes from the early records, written by Joseph Smith himself.

“November 19th/AD 1833/ From the 13th untill this date nothing of note has transpired since the great sign in the heavins. This day my heart is somewhat sorrowfull but I feel to trust in the Lord the God of Jacob. I have learned in my travels that man is trecherous and selfish but few excepted.” (From Faulring’s An American Prophet’s Records, page 14)

Here Joseph Smith actually tells us nothing of note has transpired, so there is no circumstantial trigger for depression.

“November 28th [1832] This day I have spent in reading and writing. This evening my mind is calm and serene for which I thank the Lord.

December 4th This day I have been unwell and done but little, been at home all day. Regulated some things this Evening. I feel better in my mind than I have for a few days back. Oh Lord deliver thy servent out of temptations and fill his heart with wisdom and understanding.” (both page 10)

Here are the entries between these two entries, both of which indicate depression.
November 29th This day I road from Kirtland to Chardon to see my Sister Sophronia and also called to see my Sister Catherine and found them well.

This evening Brother Frederick G. Williams Prophecyed that next spring I should go to the city of Pittsburg to etablish a Bishopwrick and within one year I should go to the city of New York. The Lord spare the life of they servent. Amen.

November 30th 1830 [editor corrected to 1832] This day returned home to Kirland and found all well to the joy and satisfaction of my soul. On my return home stopped at Mr. King’s and bore testimony to him and Family &c.

December 1th I bore testimony to Mr. Gilmore/ I wrote and corrected revelations &c.

December 2th The Sabath, I went to meeting &c

December 3rd Ordained Brother Packherd with my own hands. Also Brother Umfiry [Humphery who] came to see me from the East and braught news from Brother Lyman Johnson & Orson Pratt, &c

Also held a conference in the Evening. Brothers Jesse Gause and Mormon and William McLellen was excommunicated from the Church &c

Once again, no circumstantial trigger.

I also noted statements or events that could be indicative of mania. One could argue that claiming to be a prophet who saw God Himself and continued to communicate with heavenly beings constitutes constant grandiosity, so I was looking for statements that seemed extreme even under that circumstance. Here are some of the more notable:

Feb 25, 1843
I am a Lawyer. I am big lawyer and comprehend heaven, earth, and hell to bring forth knowledge which shall cover up all Lawyers and doctors. This is the doctrine of the Constitution so help me God. (page 313)

March 4, 1843
I wish you had my soul long enough to know how good it feels. It is expedience when you strike at an enemy, strike the most deadly blow possible. (326)

June 30, 1843
Joseph commenced a lecture on the stand to many thousands by How do you do? I meet you with a heart full of gratitude to Almighty God. I am well, healthy, [and] strong as a giant. While I was on the road I pulled up the strongest man. Then they got 2 men and they could not pull me up. I have pulled mentally till I have pulled Missouri here. (389)

I wish the Lawyer who say we have no powers in Nauvoo may be choked to death with his own words. Don’t employ any Lawyers for their knowledge for I know more [than] they all. (390)

Ran for president Jan 1844

March 1844 The Council of Fifty- having himself crowned “King”

Another interesting element is the pattern of his plural marriages. Although Joseph Smith married women at a frequent pace from 1841 on, there were periods when his marrying escalated, and when it involved younger women in particular, which could lead to the speculation that it was most likely connected with sexual desire.

One of these periods coincides with several of the above grandiose statements – March-spring 1843. The other period was early summer of 1842. I noted some of his records from August 1842 as possibly being manic as well, due to his effusive praise of his friends and family members. For example:

“Blessed is Brother Erastus H. Derby, and he shall be blessed of the Lord. He possesses a sober mind, and a faithful heart. The snares therefore that are subsequent to befall other men, who are treacherous and rotten-hearted, shall not come nigh to his doors, but shall be far from the path of his feet. He loveth wisdom, and shall be found possessed of her. Let there be a crown of glory, and a diadem upon his head. Let the light of eternal Truth shine forth upon his understanding, let his name be had in remembrance, let the blessings of Jehovah be crowned upon his posterity after him, for he rendereth me consolation, in the lonely places of my retreat. (246)

He went on to talk at length about his family members, how noble, virtuous, and pure they are, as well as lavishly praising other friends in the church.

Now, admittedly none of this “nails” the case, but it is evidence that I think should be considered.

Lawrence Foster also believes that there is evidence Joseph Smith may have suffered from bipolar, and states that there have been six descendants of Joseph Smith who have been diagnosed with the disorder, as well. Here’s a link to his comments:
http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/prophet.htm

You have to scroll down to get to his comments.
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_beastie
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _beastie »

I do tend to the theory that Joseph Smith had some form of bipolar. I do see clues of mood swings in his history, and people with bipolar can suffer from hallucinations which usually are religious in origin, but these alone would not persuade me. What I find very important is the fact that his son, David, did suffer from bipolar. His diagnosis was pretty conclusive, using the language of the time period. This is a red flag that the tendency to mood disorders existed somewhere in the family line. Emma certainly does not appear to have suffered from a mood disorder. Unless one accepts Joseph Smith as a true prophet, then it is undeniable that he suffered from grandiosity. I think his period of marrying several young wives in a short time span could indicate hypersexuality, which is a symptom of bipolar mania, to say nothing of crowning himself king, declaring himself a serious candidate for president, etc. The depressive episodes are more hidden, as they often are, but clues in his diaries and journals are still there.

People who suffer from untreated bipolar disorder for a long period of time often develop comorbid personality disorders along with the primary disorder. Their inner lives are confusing and even chaotic, and when people are suffered from fractured internal lives, they develop dysfunctional mechanisms to try and control the world. I think it would be expected that someone suffering from long untreated bipolar eventually develop narcissistic personality traits as well.

I have mixed feelings about whether or not he could be considered a full-blown narcissist. I don't mean to nit-pick, but to me, a full blown narcissist is literally incapable of seeing other human beings as "real", as having feelings and needs to be respected. Other people are just things to be manipulated, and often full blown narcissist will be violent within his/her family. While Joseph Smith certainly emotionally abused Emma with his philandering, I haven't seen good evidence that he was physically abusive of her or their children, and he was capable of great acts of kindness as well as acts of extraordinary selfishness. So, for me, I would view the narcissism as a trait, not a full blown disorder, and tend to associate it with untreated bipolar.

Full disclosure - I have three close family members who suffer from various forms of bipolar disorder, and studied it quite a bit in order to best help them. It is possible that having focused on it so much has made me 'see' it when it doesn't exist, if you know what I mean. But, again, I think the fact that David had serious bipolar that left him institutionalized is serious evidence.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_beastie
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _beastie »

Another serious possibility is "delusional disorder: grandiose type." In fact, I would consider this the strongest possibility were it not for the fact that Joseph Smith's family history has bipolar. Once again, bipolar is strongly hereditary and family members having bipolar is an important diagnostic clue.

Delusional Disorder: grandiose type

Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.

Although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders, such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself is rather rare. Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life and is slightly more common in women than in men.

Types of Delusional Disorder
There are different types of delusional disorder based on the main theme of the delusions experienced. The types of delusional disorder include:

Erotomanic: Someone with this type of delusional disorder believes that another person, often someone important or famous, is in love with him or her. The person might attempt to contact the object of the delusion, and stalking behavior is not uncommon.

Grandiose: A person with this type of delusional disorder has an over-inflated sense of worth, power, knowledge, or identity. The person might believe he or she has a great talent or has made an important discovery.

Jealous: A person with this type of delusional disorder believes that his or her spouse or sexual partner is unfaithful.

Persecutory: People with this type of delusional disorder believe that they (or someone close to them) are being mistreated, or that someone is spying on them or planning to harm them. It is not uncommon for people with this type of delusional disorder to make repeated complaints to legal authorities.

Somatic: A person with this type of delusional disorder believes that he or she has a physical defect or medical problem.

Mixed: People with this type of delusional disorder have two or more of the types of delusions listed above.

What Are the Symptoms of Delusional Disorder?
The presence of non-bizarre delusions is the most obvious symptom of this disorder. Other symptoms that mighty appear include:

An irritable, angry, or low mood
Hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not really there) that are related to the delusion (For example, a person who believes he or she has an odor problem may smell a bad odor.)


http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guid ... l-disorder
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_beastie
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _beastie »

One more thing regarding bipolar: bipolar is an illness with many different manifestations, which can make diagnosis a challenge. People tend to think of bipolar as the "classic" illness: an equal number of highs and lows, clearly recognized because the lows are suicidal for no apparent reason, and the highs are delusional mania. But reality is that this is just one of many expressions of the illness. Some people with bipolar mainly have mania, with very few depressive episodes. Others are the reverse. Some people have muted depressive episodes while having clearly delusional manic episodes. Some people have muted manic episodes while having clearly suicidal depressive episodes. Some cycle so rapidly that the cycles can occur within the course of one day, making the picture even more confusing.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_MCB
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _MCB »

And severe mood disorder problems can be accompanied with delusions, hallucinations, and paranoid thinking.
Huckelberry said:
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_beastie
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _beastie »

MCB wrote:And severe mood disorder problems can be accompanied with delusions, hallucinations, and paranoid thinking.


Exactly. People often think that the delusions and hallucinations only occur in manic phases, but they can also occur in depressive phases.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Hello,

Perhaps he was just an asshole?

V/R
Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _MCB »

Someone with those characteristics would be perceived as an asshole. :) If such a person was encouraged in his pathologies by a family that desperately wanted to have a prophet in their midst, this would have muted such a perception. He was commonly perceived as a child and young man as being somewhat intellectually dull (depression can contribute to that perception) And if he had learning disabilities and devalued himself because of them, claiming occult powers could have been a compensation for that.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Markk
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _Markk »

Beastie,

A few thoughts and question as I sort this out.

Are your family members manipulative in their disorder...you don't have to answer, I understand? Is this part of the disorder? I have a niece that is supposedly bi polar and she is very manipulative, which lends to your theory?

What was David Smith diagnosed with at the time?

Taking the 1st vision into the mix...it is clear he fab'd this and inserted it into the past, how could it be lent to delusion? This was a premeditated, calculated move .


I still lean that Joe was a street smart kid with an imagination, that was an adventurer at heart, and lazy ( didn't like to work, a Huck Finn type). I believe he was to a certain extent a product of his environment and had a somewhat dysfunctional upbringing. history shows he would go, go, go...get into trouble, wiggle his way out with a convenient revelation or move, and move on to his next con.

Side note: I was reading the History of the Church yesterday on the Book of Abraham translation and in vol 2 it says that Smith and others gave money to a cause, I think it was for building the temple...point being he gave $500.00, allot of money back then...how and who paid him? This lends to the street smart always looking for a con theory...I think?

MG
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
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Re: Joseph Smith's possible mental disorders

Post by _MCB »

Bipolar disorder does not eliminate the possibility of co-morbid existence of anti-social personality traits. But in modern times, meds for bipolar would reduce the sociopathic acting-out. And, of course, with effective educational strategies, the effects of the learning problems would have been reduced.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
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