Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

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Doctor Scratch
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Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Well, the FAIR Conference is over. I think that we--or I, at least--were expecting some kind of drama, but instead, I think that we got something far more subtle, but something quite important. I don't know about you, but the presentation that may very well have piqued my interest the most was Stephen Smoot's "Abraham and the Stranger at Sodom and Gomorrah: Reading the Bible and Navigating LGBT Identity." It's remarkable to see a talk at a Mopologetic conference dealing with this topic: the Mopologists, as well all know, are staunchly homophobic, perhaps epitomized by Midgley's infamous quip, "Are you still selling books by that queer?" allegedly shouted in the Tanners' bookstore in reference to titles by D. Michael Quinn. And one can't forget the dozens of posts at "Sic et Non" arguing against gay marriage, and even arguing that "changing the definition of marriage" is eroding society.

So Smoot's talk, the entire text of which can apparently be read here, is quite remarkable. On the surface, the talk positions itself as an exegetical examination of the Sodom & Gomorrah story from the Bible, arguing that the key sin in the story is not homosexual sex, but, instead, abusive behavior and depravity. But many Latter-day Saints--and other Christians--still believe in the former interpretation, as Smoot points out:
This understanding of the text was infamously captured in Jack Chick’s 1989 sensationalist comic tract Doom Town, in which an evangelical Christian cameraman covering a gay rights rally for the news attempts to proselytize a young gay man by recounting to him the horrors of Sodom and its downfall. The tract ends with the ominous message that “[God] destroyed an entire city because of the sin of homosexuality.” As prevalent as this reading of the story might be among fundamentalist and ultra-conservative Christians, however, Longman urges us that “we should not jump too quickly to that answer.”
Quite interesting, no? And what "answer" should LDS--and Mopologists, no doubt--"jump" to? As Smoot explains:
But what many interpreters, including many Latter-day Saints, have failed to appreciate about this sexual component of the sin of Sodom is that it does not involve notions of sexual orientation (homosexual or otherwise) as such. The men of Sodom were not “gay” in even the remotest sense of contemporary LGBT identity if for no other reason than the ancients did not share modern conceptions of sexual orientation.
The ancient audience of this text would thus have seen the “abominable”/tôʿēbāh sexual acts of the men of Sodom as the culmination of gross inhospitality, not as sexual desire per se, and certainly not as a signifier of any kind of underlying LGBT sexual orientation.
In other words: the great sin of the city of Sodom was not sodomy per se, but rather "inhospitality." Smoot is careful to point out that there *is* nonetheless a sexual component to this (he actually says that "the men of Sodom basically attempted to gang rape Lot’s guests"), but the chief sin here is not the sexual act per se, but rather, the sheer criminality and disregard for humanity that was behind the attempted rape.

Personally, I found Smoot's interpretation persuasive, though of course it's impossible to overlook the fact that this flies in the face of longstanding Mopologetic views on the topic. Students of Mopologetics probably remember Daniel C. Peterson's infamous article, "Text and Context," in which he spends several paragraphs mocking homosexual writers and even arguing that "it seems clear that immorality (not merely of the homosexual variety) and intellectual apostasy are, and always have been, frequent (though not invariable) companions." He sums up his discussion with this wryly homophobic quip: "Sodom and Cumorah are apparently not compatible." Notice that there is no hint whatsoever that DCP grasps the point about inhospitality being the primary sin of Sodom. (It would contradict his thesis, no?) Smoot's essay is thus a massive rebuke to one of the most longstanding and central beliefs in Mopologetics: i.e., that homosexuality is equivalent to apostasy.

Smoot writes:
It does nobody any favors (not the Church, not its moral teachings, not those who sincerely want to know how they can love and help their LGBT friends and family, and certainly not LGBT Latter-day Saints themselves) to misuse scripture in what might otherwise be a sincere attempt at balancing the two great commandments.
One would assume that this applies just as much to DCP, Midgley, Gee, and the other Mopologists as it does to anyone else. And indeed, this passage seems almost like a direct appeal to the senior Mopologists:
Smoot wrote:Listening to and understanding their LGBT siblings and offering them a spiritual home in the Church of Jesus Christ cannot be accomplished by thoughtlessly wresting scripture or by being more interested in winning an argument than trying to sincerely understand the plight of the gay Latter-day Saint. Consider, then, in this light, the following way in which a Latter-day Saint today might “liken” the story of Sodom and Gomorrah to him or herself. Imagine that an LGBT Latter-day Saint comes seeking refuge and a spiritual home in the Church. Imagine that this Saint has endured feelings of loneliness and alienation in the Church because they do not feel like they belong, or perhaps because they have, regrettably, endured bullying among their peers. Non-LGBT Church members have a choice. They can, like Abraham, respond with love and work hard to help this weary traveler; or, they can, like the men of Sodom, subject this poor soul to further abuse. Since the plainly obvious moral point of the story in Genesis is to praise Abraham’s behavior and condemn the behavior of the men of Sodom, the choice should be clear enough.
Yes, and I hope Dr. Peterson will remember this next time he brings up the bit about the baker in Colorado who refused to bake the cake for the gay couple. Perhaps Dr. Peterson is more accurately described as a "Sodomite" here?

In any case, kudos to Smoot for a well-crafted piece, and for sticking it to the Mopologists on their home turf, and at their marquee conference. This is without a doubt the biggest rebuke of Mopologetic politics and doctrine since Grant Hardy announced that belief in a historical Book of Mormon was irrelevant for salvation. And so far, Midgley, DCP, and the rest have been basically silent on this, though one imagines that they are quietly seething with rage.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Moksha »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:54 pm
Steve Smoot wrote:to misuse scripture in what might otherwise be a sincere attempt at balancing the two great commandments.
Pretty sure Steve means misuse by minimizing the two great commandments in order to justify negative actions toward the LGBTQ community.
And so far, Midgley, DCP, and the rest have been basically silent on this, though one imagines that they are quietly seething with rage.
On the positive side, it takes a lot of forbearance to sit on their rage. Maybe the FAIR Conference attendees will become kinder and gentler people as a result of this address.
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Rivendale »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:54 pm
Well, the FAIR Conference is over. I think that we--or I, at least--were expecting some kind of drama, but instead, I think that we got something far more subtle, but something quite important. I don't know about you, but the presentation that may very well have piqued my interest the most was Stephen Smoot's "Abraham and the Stranger at Sodom and Gomorrah: Reading the Bible and Navigating LGBT Identity." It's remarkable to see a talk at a Mopologetic conference dealing with this topic: the Mopologists, as well all know, are staunchly homophobic, perhaps epitomized by Midgley's infamous quip, "Are you still selling books by that queer?" allegedly shouted in the Tanners' bookstore in reference to titles by D. Michael Quinn. And one can't forget the dozens of posts at "Sic et Non" arguing against gay marriage, and even arguing that "changing the definition of marriage" is eroding society.

So Smoot's talk, the entire text of which can apparently be read here, is quite remarkable. On the surface, the talk positions itself as an exegetical examination of the Sodom & Gomorrah story from the Bible, arguing that the key sin in the story is not homosexual sex, but, instead, abusive behavior and depravity. But many Latter-day Saints--and other Christians--still believe in the former interpretation, as Smoot points out:
This understanding of the text was infamously captured in Jack Chick’s 1989 sensationalist comic tract Doom Town, in which an evangelical Christian cameraman covering a gay rights rally for the news attempts to proselytize a young gay man by recounting to him the horrors of Sodom and its downfall. The tract ends with the ominous message that “[God] destroyed an entire city because of the sin of homosexuality.” As prevalent as this reading of the story might be among fundamentalist and ultra-conservative Christians, however, Longman urges us that “we should not jump too quickly to that answer.”
Quite interesting, no? And what "answer" should LDS--and Mopologists, no doubt--"jump" to? As Smoot explains:
But what many interpreters, including many Latter-day Saints, have failed to appreciate about this sexual component of the sin of Sodom is that it does not involve notions of sexual orientation (homosexual or otherwise) as such. The men of Sodom were not “gay” in even the remotest sense of contemporary LGBT identity if for no other reason than the ancients did not share modern conceptions of sexual orientation.
The ancient audience of this text would thus have seen the “abominable”/tôʿēbāh sexual acts of the men of Sodom as the culmination of gross inhospitality, not as sexual desire per se, and certainly not as a signifier of any kind of underlying LGBT sexual orientation.
In other words: the great sin of the city of Sodom was not sodomy per se, but rather "inhospitality." Smoot is careful to point out that there *is* nonetheless a sexual component to this (he actually says that "the men of Sodom basically attempted to gang rape Lot’s guests"), but the chief sin here is not the sexual act per se, but rather, the sheer criminality and disregard for humanity that was behind the attempted rape.

Personally, I found Smoot's interpretation persuasive, though of course it's impossible to overlook the fact that this flies in the face of longstanding Mopologetic views on the topic. Students of Mopologetics probably remember Daniel C. Peterson's infamous article, "Text and Context," in which he spends several paragraphs mocking homosexual writers and even arguing that "it seems clear that immorality (not merely of the homosexual variety) and intellectual apostasy are, and always have been, frequent (though not invariable) companions." He sums up his discussion with this wryly homophobic quip: "Sodom and Cumorah are apparently not compatible." Notice that there is no hint whatsoever that DCP grasps the point about inhospitality being the primary sin of Sodom. (It would contradict his thesis, no?) Smoot's essay is thus a massive rebuke to one of the most longstanding and central beliefs in Mopologetics: i.e., that homosexuality is equivalent to apostasy.

Smoot writes:
It does nobody any favors (not the Church, not its moral teachings, not those who sincerely want to know how they can love and help their LGBT friends and family, and certainly not LGBT Latter-day Saints themselves) to misuse scripture in what might otherwise be a sincere attempt at balancing the two great commandments.
One would assume that this applies just as much to DCP, Midgley, Gee, and the other Mopologists as it does to anyone else. And indeed, this passage seems almost like a direct appeal to the senior Mopologists:
Smoot wrote:Listening to and understanding their LGBT siblings and offering them a spiritual home in the Church of Jesus Christ cannot be accomplished by thoughtlessly wresting scripture or by being more interested in winning an argument than trying to sincerely understand the plight of the gay Latter-day Saint. Consider, then, in this light, the following way in which a Latter-day Saint today might “liken” the story of Sodom and Gomorrah to him or herself. Imagine that an LGBT Latter-day Saint comes seeking refuge and a spiritual home in the Church. Imagine that this Saint has endured feelings of loneliness and alienation in the Church because they do not feel like they belong, or perhaps because they have, regrettably, endured bullying among their peers. Non-LGBT Church members have a choice. They can, like Abraham, respond with love and work hard to help this weary traveler; or, they can, like the men of Sodom, subject this poor soul to further abuse. Since the plainly obvious moral point of the story in Genesis is to praise Abraham’s behavior and condemn the behavior of the men of Sodom, the choice should be clear enough.
Yes, and I hope Dr. Peterson will remember this next time he brings up the bit about the baker in Colorado who refused to bake the cake for the gay couple. Perhaps Dr. Peterson is more accurately described as a "Sodomite" here?

In any case, kudos to Smoot for a well-crafted piece, and for sticking it to the Mopologists on their home turf, and at their marquee conference. This is without a doubt the biggest rebuke of Mopologetic politics and doctrine since Grant Hardy announced that belief in a historical Book of Mormon was irrelevant for salvation. And so far, Midgley, DCP, and the rest have been basically silent on this, though one imagines that they are quietly seething with rage.
Correction. Steven Bukkake Smoot.
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Kishkumen »

Good for him. Of course, this argument is hardly new. I have probably posted some variation of it on the old board a handful of times. Hopefully, it will make a stronger impression when a fellow Mopologist teaches it.
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Lem »

Smoot wrote:
Listening to and understanding their LGBT siblings and offering them a spiritual home in the Church of Jesus Christ cannot be accomplished by thoughtlessly wresting scripture or by being more interested in winning an argument than trying to sincerely understand the plight of the gay Latter-day Saint. Consider, then, in this light, the following way in which a Latter-day Saint today might “liken” the story of Sodom and Gomorrah to him or herself. Imagine that an LGBT Latter-day Saint comes seeking refuge and a spiritual home in the Church. Imagine that this Saint has endured feelings of loneliness and alienation in the Church because they do not feel like they belong, or perhaps because they have, regrettably, endured bullying among their peers. Non-LGBT Church members have a choice. They can, like Abraham, respond with love and work hard to help this weary traveler; or, they can, like the men of Sodom, subject this poor soul to further abuse. Since the plainly obvious moral point of the story in Genesis is to praise Abraham’s behavior and condemn the behavior of the men of Sodom, the choice should be clear enough.
Smoot plea here is heartbreaking to read. I hope it was received well.
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Moksha »

I remember proposing on the old MAD board that the bishops should suggest a loving spiritual home as an alternative when they were kicking LGBTQ people out of the Church. That was roundly rejected by the other members. Why suggest a soft landing pad when they were being given the boot? It was not in the nature of the beast.

Now Steve Smoot is suggesting kindness. Times have changed for the better!
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by dastardly stem »

What a good move, Smoot. Hopefully this leads to more. I mean why the hell didn't you address the real issue? wresting scripture to hurt people is one thing but these guys can be like "screw scripture. We can talk to God in this modern day" and yet they still promote division, bigotry, and exclusion.

Seriously its a big move, but my impatient self says it's not enough.
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Lem »

dastardly stem wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:10 pm
What a good move, Smoot. Hopefully this leads to more. I mean why the hell didn't you address the real issue? wresting scripture to hurt people is one thing but these guys can be like "screw scripture. We can talk to God in this modern day" and yet they still promote division, bigotry, and exclusion.

Seriously its a big move, but my impatient self says it's not enough.
Agreed, but wow, from his perspective this is definitely biting the hand that feeds you. What a different feeling than some of his other pieces. Hopefully he doesn't get shunned for this.
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Doctor Scratch »

The Mopologists' responses have been predictably slimy:
Daniel Peterson wrote:It was a very good presentation.
Really? In what sense? Does he agree with its basic message? Its argument about acceptance of LGBTQ+ people? Merely the exegetical material? The polish of it? What? It seems to me that he's being deliberately vague. At least, until Pahoran/Kiwi chimes in:
Kiwi57 wrote:Yes. The Saviour invites all to come unto Him.

And repent.

And sin no more.
Right. Remember: Smoot's talk describes "loving, consensual same-sex couples." What do DCP and Kiwi think that this phrase is describing? Chaste, gay LDS men who only hold hands? Is kissing on the lips allowed? Mutual masturbation?

As I think you can see, the entire thing starts to crumble before your eyes. Smoot repeatedly warns the reader/listener that his talk is "hard" and "difficult," and it's clear what he means: he's clearing the way for acceptance of gay sex in LDS culture. Seriously, what else can he possibly mean with the use of the word "consensual" in this context? It seems clear that he's referring to things like oral and anal sex, and mutual masturbation, kissing, hand-holding, and other forms of physical connection and affection.

DCP can play coy and pretend like he doesn't "understand" what Smoot's talk is referring to, but Kiwi clearly *does* understand, and is repeating the usual Mopologetic doctrine: namely, that there is no room for homosexuality in the modern LDS Church.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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Re: Steve Smoot's FAIR Talk Takes Aim at the Mopologists' Homophobia

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

I’m proud of Stephen for taking this stance.

I’m curious about what Louis “That Queer” Midgley thinks.

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