FIRM Exults in "Firing" of Heartland Model Critics

[_sock puppet]

hobo1512,

Nice way to put a cork in Pahoran's piehole.

Of course, because Pahoran looks to Midgley/Peterson/Hamblin for his doctrine rather than the FP/12, I'm sure he's convinced that the unsigned fax from Ms Ogden, the so called "2nd Watson Letter", trumps a letter actually issued and signed by Watson, then THE secretary to the FP.

[_hobo1512]

hobo1512,

Nice way to put a cork in Pahoran's piehole.

Of course, because Pahoran looks to Midgley/Peterson/Hamblin for his doctrine rather than the FP/12, I'm sure he's convinced that the unsigned fax from Ms Ogden, the so called "2nd Watson Letter", trumps a letter actually issued and signed by Watson, then THE secretary to the FP.

Maybe they were using the special super duper disappearing ink like they did on the back of the Declaration of Independence in the movie National Treasure.

[_Pahoran]

hobo1512,

Nice way to put a cork in Pahoran's piehole.

Of course, because Pahoran looks to Midgley/Peterson/Hamblin for his doctrine rather than the FP/12, I'm sure he's convinced that the unsigned fax from Ms Ogden, the so called "2nd Watson Letter", trumps a letter actually issued and signed by Watson, then THE secretary to the FP.

Thank you, Hush Puppy. Your attempt to pre-empt the use of the superseding document demonstrates that you know perfectly well that it eviscerates the discarded Watson letter.

And that you are, with lawyerly dishonesty, attempting to disqualify it without addressing the pertinent fact: that it carries exactly the same degree of authority.

As you perfectly well know.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Chap]

hobo1512,

Nice way to put a cork in Pahoran's piehole.

Of course, because Pahoran looks to Midgley/Peterson/Hamblin for his doctrine rather than the FP/12, I'm sure he's convinced that the unsigned fax from Ms Ogden, the so called "2nd Watson Letter", trumps a letter actually issued and signed by Watson, then THE secretary to the FP.

Why is the issue of the Watson letter interesting? Part of the reason may be seen here in this interesting exchange on the subject of what used to be called the “2nd Watson letter”, a document that Daniel Peterson repeatedly assured us he had seen and handled:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 91#p358491

Hello,

Oh my. I am gob smacked that my role in the 2nd Watson Letter affair has become a point of fascination! I’ll take a break from my Mopopsy Magnum Opus to answer this query in short order, my good friend.

Please forgive me if the timeline isn’t to-the-hour perfect, for I am laboring under the influence of a Norwalk, CT company’s product at this hour. But I digress…

The Scene:

Mr. Daniel C. Peterson asserts, on the MAD board, there exists a 2nd Watson Letter:

The "2nd Watson Letter" is a brief letter from Michael Watson, then the secretary to the First Presidency, that was quoted in an article by Bill Hamblin that was published in the FARMS Review quite a few years ago. The original of the letter vanished, eons back, into the black hole that is Professor Hamblin's office -- a model of organization, precision, and efficiency, compared to my own -- and has not been seen by mortals since that time, though Professor Hamblin and the FARMS Review source checker and the FARMS publications director and the FARMS Review production editor and I all saw it during the preparation of the article for publication. Two or three very vocal critics of FARMS, however, pretend to suspect that we made the letter up, attributing views to the First Presidency that they do not, in fact, hold, and that we brazenly published our forgery for all to see. (They plainly don't wear their tin-foil hats as much as they should.)

He went on to say:

I myself don’t doubt that there was such a letter. I held it in my own two little hands, and read it with my own two little eyes. Those for whom this is an issue, however, are entirely free to investigate.

Much like the “Missing Scrolls” this mysterious letter substantiated the Mopologist claim that the Mormon church’s views are in line with the Mopologists’ views vis a vis the Hill Cumorah. When pressed to produce the 2nd Watson Letter Mr. Peterson told us to write Mr. Hamblin and see if he would produce a copy of the 2nd Watson Letter (which, again, asserts that the Hill Cumorah in New York is not the Hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon).

The following is my part in the endeavor:

- I typed a polite request for a copy of the 2nd Watson Letter and mailed it, as per Mr. Peterson’s instructions, to Mr. Hamblin.

- I informed Mr. Peterson that I followed his instructions, to the “T”, to which he replied, “I am happy for you, but I’m much too busy to concern myself with such nonsense.”

- I didn’t receive a response from Mr. Hamblin.

- I informed Mr. Peterson that Mr. Hamblin declined to respond to my request, as per his instructions. Mr. Peterson replied, “Perhaps Mr. Hamblin has better things to do than suffer the fool’s errand of an anonymous anti-Mormon?”

- I typed a polite response to Mr. Peterson explaining that I was just following his instructions, and if there were any other means to obtain a copy of the 2nd Watson Letter I would appreciate any guidance he might offer.

- Mr. Peterson responded by telling me “You should get a job with the custodial department at BYU, since it’s apparent you’re unemployed and have nothing better to do; perhaps cleaning Mr. Hamblin’s office would render said letter from underneath a project that actually merits..." Blah blah...

Stand by please... I have a phone call from a prominent Imam ref the Q'uran issue that I must take. I'll come back to this thread. I'm hoping to show the Muslim world that burning the American flag and killing people when they're upset is wrongheaded...

V/R
Dr. Cam

Followed immediately by:

Hello.

Now that I saved the world, and am taking yet another hiatus from my forthcoming magnum Mopolopus, I can resume where I left off.

- Mr. Peterson then stated that he couldn’t understand my “obsession” with this “supposed” 2nd Watson Letter. I responded that I was interested in it because he said it existed, held it with his own hands, and that it was probably in Mr. Hamblin’s office. I also stated that it would be very discrediting to him if he were to suggest we write his colleague for answer, and his colleague doesn’t produce proof of Mr. Peterson’s assertion. Here’s where our interaction became interesting: In a rare moment of honesty, and I’m not sure if he was simply experiencing an ischemic stroke or not, he stated that he could have “misremembered” handling the 2nd Watson Letter when in reality what he thought was the 2nd Watson Letter was nothing more “than the memory of wishful thinking mixed with another real document” unrelated to our exchange.

- Stunned for having been bamboozled by a prestigious BYU Professor of Middle Eastern Studies & for having been sent on a Fool’s Errand myself I told him that I was hurt and offended that he had raised my hopes and then subsequently dashed them. I was foolish enough to believe a 2nd Watson Letter existed [ ;) ], and that Mr. Hamblin would produce one as per Mr. Peterson’s instructive. I told him that I would tell anyone who listened that he was a liar and prevaricator.

- Shortly thereafter, and I mean only days after our exchange, the Mopologetic world was treated to an “earth shattering” occasion when the Ogden Fax was released (with Mr. Peterson’s fingerprints all over it).

I like to think that my badgering Mr. Peterson was a key role in him making the stupid and fumbling mistake of producing the Ogden Fax through a proxy “dupe”. Though my role was small, I believe it was a key component, a catalyst as it were, in causing Mr. Peterson to make a series of blunders that exposed him as the fraud and myth peddler he was and is. He essentially dug himself a hole, and his only “escape” was to produce the Ogden Fax through a proxy idiot.

You have to realize that this process was one that unfolded over a couple of years. I wrote Mr. Hamblin, on good faith, at least three times, via regular mail, in the hopes that Mr. Peterson would "produce the goods". I, of course, was not surprised to find out that not only did the 2nd Watson Letter not exist (and therefore could not be produced), but Mr. Peterson would go about reconstructing and fabricating a reality around the subject that was simply fallacious.


V/R
Doctor CamNC4Me

[_Drifting]

However, the record shows that Moroni's plates were not buried in Mormon's Cumorah, per Momon 6:6. The connection between Mormon's Cumorah and the New York hill modernly called Cumorah is a matter of popular usage, if not sentiment, and has no basis in revealed doctrine.

Regards,
Pahoran

And yet, as shown by my quotes from lds.org, the Church portrays the two hills to the membership as one and the same.


Why isn't the Church listening to you?

[_Drifting]

Perhaps you would be better served trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

Regards,
Pahoran

It certainly feels like I'm trying to do just that...

[_hobo1512]

Has anyone ever discussed the differences in the Titles/Letterheads between the Watson letter and the Ogden Fax?

The letter clearly shows The name of the church with the office of the first presidency below it. The fax however doesn't mention/show the church's name, only office of the first presidency.

Every company that I have ever worked for, all outgoing documents (faxes, email, invoices, etc.) all used the same verbiage.

How has this been explained away?

I just find it odd.

[_hobo1512]

Did I kill the conversation?

Oops, my bad.

[_Pahoran]

Did I kill the conversation?

How? By posting a scan of a document you know perfectly well does not represent the actual position of the Church?

I don't know if you killed the conversation, but you certainly demonstrated that you're not interested in the facts of the matter.

Oops, my bad.

Indeed.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Chap]

Did I kill the conversation?

How? By posting a scan of a document you know perfectly well does not represent the actual position of the Church?

I don't know if you killed the conversation, but you certainly demonstrated that you're not interested in the facts of the matter.

Oops, my bad.

Indeed.

Regards,
Pahoran

Please post a scan of any other document which, in your view, may be taken to represent the views of the First Presidency with the same degree of authority as the letter signed by F. Michael Watson, Secretary to the First Presidency, posted above.