cafe crema wrote:No I didn't explain it well. We are creations not literal offspring, we are invited as adopted children to call God Father. Satan is also a creation of God. And no God and Jesus are not the same person, God, and The Son, (Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages...begotten, not made) and the Holy Spirit are the same being but different persons.
Hang on. Are you saying that Jesus is not "The Son"?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
cafe crema wrote:No I didn't explain it well. We are creations not literal offspring, we are invited as adopted children to call God Father. Satan is also a creation of God. And no God and Jesus are not the same person, God, and The Son, (Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages...begotten, not made) and the Holy Spirit are the same being but different persons.
Hang on. Are you saying that Jesus is not "The Son"?
Yes Jesus is The Son but is not the same person as The Father.
What's interesting is Jesus was conspiring with His Brah to kill Job's children just to check his faith, yo'.
I would really love to hear a faithful person set this story straight, because it's horrible. :(
V/R Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Tobin wrote:I really don't see how you are agreeing with Nightlion or myself at all.
We are NOT Jesus nor can we BE Jesus (or the Father). We will never suffer for the sins of the world like Christ did. We will never live perfect lives or be the perfect example. We will never be the one to be slain and take up our bodies again and become the first resurrection that all others follow afterwards. You simply don't understand the phrase "the only begotten" at all OR who and what Jesus really was. We are not each and every one of us "begotten" of the Father as you seem to think. That is patently absurd when you consider the phrase in the first place. It literally means Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father. We are NOT begotten of the Father. We are NOT literally spirit sons and daughters of God at all. We are spirit sons and daughters of Celestial Beings, as we also hope to be one day. And Satan shares that origin with us. We are very unlike God in those ways and when Jesus hopes we will become one with God. It does not mean that we will in turn become God - it MEANS we will share our purpose and intent with God - NOT BE GOD (which we can never be or attain for the obvious reasons I've already pointed out to you).
Tobin, there are obviously many things that Jesus has done that we can never do. I agree with that. So in one sense what Jesus did and who He was (and is) is unattainable. But in another very real sense we can become very much one with Jesus and His Father; we become so united with them in purpose that there will be no meaningful distinction between the Father of Jesus and we ourselves. When that happens each of us will be as much God as God the Father is. We won't be identical to Jesus Christ, because we have sins in our past, and Jesus has none, but at that point in our lives the sinless Christ will have transformed our lives so completely that we will be completely one with Him and His Father.
cafe crema wrote:I will explain this poorly as I usually do. Satan was created by The Son, who came down from heaven and became man. It is not possible in traditional Christian understanding for The Son and Satan to be brothers.
Cafe Crema, can I ask you a question? Were James and Joses, Mary's other sons, created by The Son as well? If so, does that mean it "is not possible in traditional Christian understanding for The Son and" those two to be brothers?
Tobin wrote:I really don't see how you are agreeing with Nightlion or myself at all.
We are NOT Jesus nor can we BE Jesus (or the Father). We will never suffer for the sins of the world like Christ did. We will never live perfect lives or be the perfect example. We will never be the one to be slain and take up our bodies again and become the first resurrection that all others follow afterwards. You simply don't understand the phrase "the only begotten" at all OR who and what Jesus really was. We are not each and every one of us "begotten" of the Father as you seem to think. That is patently absurd when you consider the phrase in the first place. It literally means Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father. We are NOT begotten of the Father. We are NOT literally spirit sons and daughters of God at all. We are spirit sons and daughters of Celestial Beings, as we also hope to be one day. And Satan shares that origin with us. We are very unlike God in those ways and when Jesus hopes we will become one with God. It does not mean that we will in turn become God - it MEANS we will share our purpose and intent with God - NOT BE GOD (which we can never be or attain for the obvious reasons I've already pointed out to you).
Tobin, there are obviously many things that Jesus has done that we can never do. I agree with that. So in one sense what Jesus did and who He was (and is) is unattainable. But in another very real sense we can become very much one with Jesus and His Father; we become so united with them in purpose that there will be no meaningful distinction between the Father of Jesus and we ourselves. When that happens each of us will be as much God as God the Father is. We won't be identical to Jesus Christ, because we have sins in our past, and Jesus has none, but at that point in our lives the sinless Christ will have transformed our lives so completely that we will be completely one with Him and His Father.
In what sense will we ever be God? Can we ever be the perfect example for the next generation of spirit children? Jesus did all he had seen his father do. How can we ever possibly be that parentage? God makes possible our salvation. In what way can we ever save ourselves and those around us? What can we do and what is man to assume we will ever attain or be equal with God? God is willing to share with us all that he has and is, but that does not change our station. We may become Celestial Beings, but God - never. We can help form spirit children in the worlds to come, just as our Celestial parents formed us. But we can never be the parentage of a Christ or attain the station of a Christ or his Father. God is perfect always and simply beyond us in every way. God is more intelligent than we are and never sins. Think about that for a moment. God makes no mistakes EVER. We need God for our salvation and exaltation. There is nothing we can do to attain this for ourselves and by assuming so we belittle all that God is and does for us.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
cafe crema wrote:I will explain this poorly as I usually do. Satan was created by The Son, who came down from heaven and became man. It is not possible in traditional Christian understanding for The Son and Satan to be brothers.
Cafe Crema, can I ask you a question? Were James and Joses, Mary's other sons, created by The Son as well? If so, does that mean it "is not possible in traditional Christian understanding for The Son and" those two to be brothers?
What then does Paul mean in Galatians 1:19 when he mentions "James the Lord's brother"? I believe Satan was Jesus' spirit brother in the same sense that the mentioned James was Jesus' biological brother.
