Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _Drifting »

This is a quote from Dieter's biography on lds.org:

On December 17, 1973, the president of Lufthansa German Airlines received alarming news. Five terrorists had hijacked a Lufthansa 737 jet in Rome, Italy, and were making their way to Athens, Greece, with hostages on board. In an instant, Lufthansa’s president ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet. Thirty-three-year-old Dieter F. Uchtdorf was to take a small group of emergency personnel and follow the hijacked plane wherever the guerrillas took it. In every setting possible he was to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots, and the hostages. Then, when all of this had been accomplished, he was to fly the hijacked 737 back to headquarters in Frankfurt.
With fortunately no more bloodshed, this mission, like so many others he had been on personally and professionally, was successfully accomplished.

http://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostle ... f?lang=eng

Now this may or may not be accurate, but let's assume for a moment that it is.
Why has the Church, with Dieter's permission, seen fit to make this paragraph the first part of Dieter's 'biography' on lds.org?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



As for it's accuracy:

Lufthansa hijacking

Other gunmen took several Italian hostages and Lufthansa ground crewmembers into a Lufthansa Boeing 737 waiting to depart for Munich. An Italian customs officer was shot dead on the ground after resisting. The plane, containing Captain Joe Kroese, the first officer, two flight attendants, two ground crew, and eight Italian hostages, took off for Athens, Greece on the orders of the five terrorists also on board. After landing in Athens, the terrorists demanded by radio the release of two Palestinian gunmen responsible for a previous attack on an Athens airport terminal lounge. They claimed to have killed five hostages, including the plane's first officer. The terrorists also threatened to crash the jet in the middle of Athens if their demands were not met. In reality, only one Italian hostage had been killed and one wounded. The plane took off again from Athens after sixteen hours on the ground and after the gunmen had released the wounded hostage and dumped the body of the dead hostage onto the tarmac.
The plane next headed for Beirut, where Lebanese authorities refused to allow landing, and blocked the runway with vehicles. Cyprus also refused to allow landing. The guerrillas on board finally ordered the plane to be landed in Damascus, Syria, allegedly because the plane was running low on fuel. In Syria, Air Force Commander Major General Naji Jamil attempted to persuade the Palestinians to release the hostages, but they refused. The Syrians provided food and refueled the plane. They also treated a head injury suffered by one of the hijackers. The plane took off again after about two to three hours.
The commandeered jet next headed for Kuwait, where Kuwaiti authorities refused to allow it to land. Captain Kroese was ordered by the terrorists to land anyway on a secondary runway. An hour of negotiations between the Palestinian gunmen and the Kuwaiti authorities ended with the release of all twelve remaining hostages in exchange for "free passage" to an unknown destination for the hijackers. The terrorists were permitted to retain their weapons and made a V-for-victory sign with their hands upon leaving the plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Fli ... _hijacking

I think the Church tries to make it sound as though DFU was in harms way and instrumental in the hostage release, whereas the reality seems to be that he flew a few people around for an hour or two.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _DrW »

Sounds as if the same claims of professionalism involved in the saving of lives could have been made for the hundreds of other individuals in several countries who were involved in the successful resolution of the hijacking incident.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_ZelphtheGreat
_Emeritus
Posts: 1316
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:33 am

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _ZelphtheGreat »

Was Paul Dunn here helping him?
“If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing." Ensign/2012/12
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _moksha »

Just because a Wiki article does not mention a designated Lufthansa representative as being involved in any negotiating process, does not mean any negotiating did not happen. This is like trying to build an argument on lack of data. Many parties that were not named, but who obviously had a part in this story, are absent from this very brief accounting.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _Drifting »

moksha wrote:Just because a Wiki article does not mention a designated Lufthansa representative as being involved in any negotiating process, does not mean any negotiating did not happen. This is like trying to build an argument on lack of data. Many parties that were not named, but who obviously had a part in this story, are absent from this very brief accounting.


I accept that Moksha.
However the question remains as to why, having kept his involvement in it quiet for so long, Dieter now chooses to publish (the Church didn't do this against his wishes) his self aggrandising account of it as his First Presidency biography...
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Jaybear
_Emeritus
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _Jaybear »

moksha wrote:Just because a Wiki article does not mention a designated Lufthansa representative as being involved in any negotiating process, does not mean any negotiating did not happen. This is like trying to build an argument on lack of data. Many parties that were not named, but who obviously had a part in this story, are absent from this very brief accounting.

No, this is not the equivalent of building an argument from a lack of data.

The wiki article says:
"An hour of negotiations between the Palestinian gunmen and the Kuwaiti authorities ended with the release of all twelve remaining hostages in exchange for "free passage" to an unknown destination for the hijackers.

One can reasonably infer from this sentence that whoever wrote the article did not consider that a representative from Lufthansa played a material role in the negotiations.
_Equality
_Emeritus
Posts: 3362
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:44 pm

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _Equality »

In an odd way, the story the LDS church published here about Uchtdorf lends credence to the church's claim to be the one true restored church of Jesus Christ on earth. The modern LDS church is constitutionally incapable of relating even the most ordinary historical event involving one of its leaders without fabricating, embellishing, exaggerating, and hagiographying. It's one of the 18 signs of the one true church.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
"The lds church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
_Willy Law
_Emeritus
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _Willy Law »

You guys are fast.

Image
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.
Bruce R. McConkie
_Willy Law
_Emeritus
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:53 pm

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _Willy Law »

Couldn't help myself. My first meme ever.

Image
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent.
Bruce R. McConkie
_palerobber
_Emeritus
Posts: 2026
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: Dieter F. Uchtdorf - hostage negotiator...?

Post by _palerobber »

moksha wrote:Just because a Wiki article does not mention a designated Lufthansa representative as being involved in any negotiating process, does not mean any negotiating did not happen. This is like trying to build an argument on lack of data. Many parties that were not named, but who obviously had a part in this story, are absent from this very brief accounting.


when you're dealing with an implausible claim (like an commercial airline pilot being asked to lead a hostage negotiation and recovery effort), it's appropriate to dismiss it based on less evidence than you would want before dismissing a more plausible claim.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply