Does God actually need to exist?

[_I have a question]

Good evening, I have a question:

I have been pondering for some time a realization that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to function regardless of any divine intervention. This thought process has been escalated over the course of the initiative known as "the essays". This collection of confessions has been enlightening to me in that it confims as true some of the facts I had previously been told were anti-mormon. This has led me to wonder a bigger question.

That of the necessity or otherwise for God to actually exist. It seems to me that Mormonism functions without any tangible direct intervention or involvement from deity. The essays more or less confirm that, at the very least, the direct divine intervention Mormonism claims to receive has no correlation to ensuring the organizations ability to avoid mistakes and issues that non divine institutions incur. I cannot differentiate between the Church's ability to run itself without mistake and the ability of other organizations where God is not claimed to be involved. Error rates, inconsistencies, policy flip flops, institutional vanities, leadership abuses etc seem as prevelant in the Church as they do oustide of the Church.
The influence of God, whatever that may look like, does not appear to impact on the Church in a way that is demonstrably noticeable.

My question: If God ceased to exist, but members of the Church didn't realise that and continued to believe the way they have always believed, in what material way would the Church operate differently? Do members need God to exist for their behaviours to remain as they are, or do they simply just need to believe he exists?

[_DrW]

Good evening, I have a question:

I have been pondering for some time a realization that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to function regardless of any divine intervention. This thought process has been escalated over the course of the initiative known as "the essays". This collection of confessions has been enlightening to me in that it confims as true some of the facts I had previously been told were anti-mormon. This has led me to wonder a bigger question.

That of the necessity or otherwise for God to actually exist. It seems to me that Mormonism functions without any tangible direct intervention or involvement from deity. The essays more or less confirm that, at the very least, the direct divine intervention Mormonism claims to receive has no correlation to ensuring the organizations ability to avoid mistakes and issues that non divine institutions incur. I cannot differentiate between the Church's ability to run itself without mistake and the ability of other organizations where God is not claimed to be involved. Error rates, inconsistencies, policy flip flops, institutional vanities, leadership abuses, etc. seem as prevalent in the Church as they do outside of the Church.
The influence of God, whatever that may look like, does not appear to impact on the Church in a way that is demonstrably noticeable.

My question(s):

(1) If God ceased to exist, but members of the Church didn't realise that and continued to believe the way they have always believed, in what material way would the Church operate differently?

(2) Do members need God to exist for their behaviours to remain as they are, or do they simply just need to believe he exists?

The answers to your two questions are as follows:

(1) None whatsoever.

(2) Since the Mormon God is a construct of the Mormon imagination (just as Allah is a construct of the imagination of Muslims, and every other god is a construct of the imaginations of those who believe in that god), it makes no difference whatsoever to Mormon believers whether Elohim actually exists or not.

One might even say that Mormons are better off that Elohim does not exist. This is because if he did exist, he would've necessity only have one of the millions of sets of attributes ascribed to him by various believers. That being the case, there would be a lot of disappointed Mormons when he finally did reveal himself and his particular set of attributes (which would not be as perceived / believed by millions upon millions of faithful Mormons).

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_K._Morrow

Towing Jehova was a fun book I read that kicked this idea around. I was still a believing Mormon when I read the book, but it spurred an interesting thought in that we necessarily exist separate from deity, and our concepts of God are reflective of our nature. What I mean is that God is representative of authority and order. His existence would mean there is purpose and meaning in our existence, and if He were to not exist, but we still exist, then we are responsible for our own salvation.

The book demonstrates that's unlikely, but in a funny way.

What's concerning is god worship disconnects us from possibly the only concept that may prove our salvation as a species, in that we are alone and all we have is one another.

- Doc

[_Maksutov]

Good evening, I have a question:

I have been pondering for some time a realization that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to function regardless of any divine intervention. This thought process has been escalated over the course of the initiative known as "the essays". This collection of confessions has been enlightening to me in that it confims as true some of the facts I had previously been told were anti-mormon. This has led me to wonder a bigger question.

That of the necessity or otherwise for God to actually exist. It seems to me that Mormonism functions without any tangible direct intervention or involvement from deity. The essays more or less confirm that, at the very least, the direct divine intervention Mormonism claims to receive has no correlation to ensuring the organizations ability to avoid mistakes and issues that non divine institutions incur. I cannot differentiate between the Church's ability to run itself without mistake and the ability of other organizations where God is not claimed to be involved. Error rates, inconsistencies, policy flip flops, institutional vanities, leadership abuses etc seem as prevelant in the Church as they do oustide of the Church.
The influence of God, whatever that may look like, does not appear to impact on the Church in a way that is demonstrably noticeable.

My question: If God ceased to exist, but members of the Church didn't realise that and continued to believe the way they have always believed, in what material way would the Church operate differently? Do members need God to exist for their behaviours to remain as they are, or do they simply just need to believe he exists?

Good questions. I would also ask LDS members what they think a universe without God would look like. I predict they would evade the question with a response like "It wouldn't look like anything because it couldn't exist."

[_Tator]

Good evening, I have a question:

I have been pondering for some time a realization that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to function regardless of any divine intervention. This thought process has been escalated over the course of the initiative known as "the essays". This collection of confessions has been enlightening to me in that it confims as true some of the facts I had previously been told were anti-mormon. This has led me to wonder a bigger question.

That of the necessity or otherwise for God to actually exist. It seems to me that Mormonism functions without any tangible direct intervention or involvement from deity. The essays more or less confirm that, at the very least, the direct divine intervention Mormonism claims to receive has no correlation to ensuring the organizations ability to avoid mistakes and issues that non divine institutions incur. I cannot differentiate between the Church's ability to run itself without mistake and the ability of other organizations where God is not claimed to be involved. Error rates, inconsistencies, policy flip flops, institutional vanities, leadership abuses etc seem as prevelant in the Church as they do oustide of the Church.
The influence of God, whatever that may look like, does not appear to impact on the Church in a way that is demonstrably noticeable.

My question: If God ceased to exist, but members of the Church didn't realise that and continued to believe the way they have always believed, in what material way would the Church operate differently? Do members need God to exist for their behaviours to remain as they are, or do they simply just need to believe he exists?

The church is ran like any other godless corporation because it is a godless corporation. The prophet is the CEO picked from 15 board of directors. Their primary duty is to increase the profit.

[_Gray Ghost]

Whenever these questions about whether or not God exists come up, it always seems to be on the assumption that God has human-like qualities and intervenes in human affairs.

Such a God will always come up short, but there are many other models for God than that.

[_Maksutov]

Whenever these questions about whether or not God exists come up, it always seems to be on the assumption that God has human-like qualities and intervenes in human affairs.

Such a God will always come up short, but there are many other models for God than that.

I like Paul Tillich's version.

[_Chap]

Whenever these questions about whether or not God exists come up, it always seems to be on the assumption that God has human-like qualities and intervenes in human affairs.

Such a God will always come up short, but there are many other models for God than that.

Maybe, maybe ...

But since this is a board about Mormonism, maybe we could agree that the kind of deity we are talking about here is the Mormon kind, that pretty definitely "has human-like qualities and intervenes in human affairs".

The OP has posed an interesting question, that deserves discussion.

[_SteelHead]

I invoke the cosmological argument. Hence god must exist.

Checkmate bitches!

[_I have a question]

Whenever these questions about whether or not God exists come up, it always seems to be on the assumption that God has human-like qualities and intervenes in human affairs.

Such a God will always come up short, but there are many other models for God than that.

Maybe, maybe ...

But since this is a board about Mormonism, maybe we could agree that the kind of deity we are talking about here is the Mormon kind, that pretty definitely "has human-like qualities and intervenes in human affairs".

The OP has posed an interesting question, that deserves discussion.

Good evening, I have a question:

Thank you Chap for attempting to nudge the postings back towards the question posed in the OP.

My question: I'm really interested to hear how members think things would noticeably change if, unbeknown to them, God disappeared and was no longer involved in the Church? Would they be able to notice? What changes would they expect to notice? Etc.