Runtu wrote:That's what is meant by "God's ways are not man's ways." That is the universal excuse for defending a religious belief or practice that makes no rational sense.
Its important for the cog-dis relief to add ... "and this is not important to my salvation"
mentalgymnast wrote: I think you can put all the spin you want on this...Waterdog and others...but when it comes right down to it you have to use the old saying, "Stupid is, stupid does", as a yardstick. The brethren are not stupid. So then you have to ask yourself, like you are doing, WHY? I think there are only two options when all is taken to the foundational level. They either believe that they have no choice because they think that this policy is the mind and will of God...or they are stupid.
Which they're not.
Those are not the only two options, clearly.
It doesn't take a mind reader or crystal gazer to know what my next question is.
What are some other options? But remember, I said "at a foundational level". I'm interested in other alternatives that cannot be stripped down to "stupid"...on a collective basis...or 'inspired'...in that they truly believe that what they are doing is the mind and will of the Lord. Now, that doesn't mean that they couldn't possibly be mistaken. But then we're back to 15 stupid people that can't tell which way is up, or where the wind blows.
And I think we'd agree that they know which way is up and where the wind blows.
When Brigham stated unambiguously to the Utah Territorial Legislature that it was God's will that African slavery be legal in Utah was he stupid or inspired? How about when he stated that Adam was the father of our spirits? Stupid or inspired?
Edit:
If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.
Was that a stupid thing for Brigham to say or an inspired thing to say?
Last edited by Guest on Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is certainly possible (I would argue likely) that they know the policy does not come from God, but they are actually shrewd and calculating and have instituted the policy fully expecting the reaction it has received. Their objectives may simply be different than what most outsiders (both Mormon and non-Mormon) perceive them to be. Perhaps they are a group of sociopaths in suits, neither stupid nor credulous.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The lds church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
mentalgymnast wrote:I think you can put all the spin you want on this...Waterdog and others...but when it comes right down to it you have to use the old saying, "Stupid is, stupid does", as a yardstick. The brethren are not stupid.
So your argument is, they must be right, or led by God on this matter, because, they aren't stupid? How do you know they aren't stupid? Stupid in what way? Is Obama stupid? Is Boehner stupid? Is Bernie stupid? Is Trump stupid? Was Hillary stupid with her email server? Does that decision make her stupid? Was Carli Fiorina a stupid person when she saddled HP with Compaq? Did that bad decision make her stupid? Perhaps Pope Francis is stupid to preach tolerance? Was going in Iraq a mistake? President Hinckley supported it. Did his support make him stupid?
Individuals can be stupid at times. All of us. My query has to do more with a collective body of 15 men who have been honed and challenged throughout their lives in the church. Intelligent churchmen. Each one of them, as an individual, can do something dumb or stupid at times. It's part of being human. But we're talking about all of them...collectively...doing something REALLY stupid, from the point of view of folks that are disgruntled. What is the likelihood of that?
Now, they could ALL be mistaken in their view that they are speaking the mind and will of the Lord in this matter...but then that leads us back to collective stupidity(which is highly unlikely) and/or groupthink based on false premises. I suppose that 'groupthink' could be another option. But then we get into the whole WHY thing again. To line their pockets? To serve God? Etc.
And that becomes a personal decision that each of us has to make.
mentalgymnast wrote: And I think we'd agree that they know which way is up and where the wind blows.
Regards, MG
Based on what evidence? These are strangers, leaders of a large corporation. We don't really know them at all. Some of the same guys that came out with the oral sex temple question for married couples.
Remember that one?
Did they decide to have bishops ask married women about oral sex because they were stupid or inspired? didn't they know which way was up and which way the wind blew? It appears they didn't.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
just me wrote:Did they decide to have bishops ask married women about oral sex because they were stupid or inspired? didn't they know which way was up and which way the wind blew? It appears they didn't.
I think they knew which way their wife did not. I think it was jealousy.
