How the LDS Church Punishes the Obedient

[_consiglieri]

Sometimes the LDS Church ends up punishing those who are most obedient:

1. Those who practiced plural marriage were left out on a limb when the Church changed course and made what was formerly a requirement for exaltation grounds for excommunication.

2. When I joined the Church in 1978, I received repeated messages about becoming a scriptorian which I took to heart. After 30-years of studying Mormonism, I found I had learned what was not to be mentioned or taught. I became extinct in my own lifetime.

3. My wife followed the prophet's counsel to sacrifice her career and get married young and have children. Now we have "I'm a Mormon" commercials extolling the virtues of single parents with careers.

4. The LDS Church admonished homosexual men to get married in the temple and have children to solve their "problem." Now after many such marriages have fallen apart upon the husbands accepting their sexuality and finding same-sex partners, the Church comes up with a policy to punish the children these men were told to have. (I'm sure this has happened to women, as well.)

If obedience is the first law of heaven, why do so many Mormons get punished for it?

Just wondering . . .

[_annie]

Good point! I gave up my university scholarship to get married and have children. Years later, having left the church, I was told that my failure to complete my education was *entirely* my own decision because the church has NEVER expected women to have children straight after marriage.

Yet in the church's current Celestial Marriage manual the suggested reading for the lesson titled 'Women's Divine Roles and Responsibilities' includes a talk titled 'To the Mothers in Zion' by Ezra Taft Benson. The talk includes this admonition: "Young mothers and fathers, with all my heart I counsel you not to postpone having your children, being co-creators with our Father in heaven."

Said talk includes many other gems: http://fc.byu.edu/jpages/ee/w_etb87.htm

[_consiglieri]

This is the same type of crap my wife heard--that the Church had never told her to choose family over career.

The whole thing is more than Orwellian--it is Kafkaesque!

[_annie]

It's gaslighting.

I thought it was me, at first. I assumed I had misheard/misunderstood what I'd been taught. I went back and read the YW manuals and then I realised I wasn't misremembering. I even downloaded the manuals before they were changed, just in case I wanted/needed to quote from them in the future.

[_Markk]

What is the position today on what size a family should be?

I was indirectly taught I was selfish in that my quiver was not full ( I just have two children). I have 30 nieces and nephews.

[_Kittens_and_Jesus]

This is the same type of crap my wife heard--that the Church had never told her to choose family over career.

The whole thing is more than Orwellian--it is Kafkaesque!

Not long after I left the church I read Kafka and immediately drew comparisons. So much control, so much despair.

I thought that the Trial was a dystopian tragedy. It turns out that Kafka intended it to be a comedy.
Kafka was utilizing a Germanic brand of black humor.

I now see the church as more Orwellian.

[_RockSlider]

What is the position today on what size a family should be?

I was indirectly taught I was selfish in that my quiver was not full ( I just have two children). I have 30 nieces and nephews.

I believe today it would require a silent survey and some pilot program to determine what the Church's position on anything is today.

[_I have a question]

What is the position today on what size a family should be?

I was indirectly taught I was selfish in that my quiver was not full ( I just have two children). I have 30 nieces and nephews.

I believe today it would require a silent survey and some pilot program to determine what the Church's position on anything is today.

This is the latest official pronouncement:

Children are one of the greatest blessings in life, and their birth into loving and nurturing families is central to God’s purposes for humanity. When husband and wife are physically able, they have the privilege and responsibility to bring children into the world and to nurture them. The decision of how many children to have and when to have them is a private matter for the husband and wife.

https://www.lds.org/topics/birth-control?lang=eng

So, if there is no physical impediment to procreating, heterosexual married couples are obligated to have 'children'. Choosing to be childless is therefore a sin. As for the decision on when, despite what the statement says, Church leaders have encouraged couples not to wait to have children, even if they don't feel in a position financially to have them (I note that counsel has been given to pay tithing in priority over buying food or paying for heating).

Those who are physically able have the blessing, joy, and obligation to bear children and to raise a family. This blessing should not be postponed for selfish reasons.

As another reference I would cite the following:
https://www.lds.org/liahona/2005/04/str ... h?lang=eng

[_ldsfaqs]

Sometimes the LDS Church ends up punishing those who are most obedient:

1. Those who practiced plural marriage were left out on a limb when the Church changed course and made what was formerly a requirement for exaltation grounds for excommunication.

2. When I joined the Church in 1978, I received repeated messages about becoming a scriptorian which I took to heart. After 30-years of studying Mormonism, I found I had learned what was not to be mentioned or taught. I became extinct in my own lifetime.

3. My wife followed the prophet's counsel to sacrifice her career and get married young and have children. Now we have "I'm a Mormon" commercials extolling the virtues of single parents with careers.

4. The LDS Church admonished homosexual men to get married in the temple and have children to solve their "problem." Now after many such marriages have fallen apart upon the husbands accepting their sexuality and finding same-sex partners, the Church comes up with a policy to punish the children these men were told to have. (I'm sure this has happened to women, as well.)

If obedience is the first law of heaven, why do so many Mormons get punished for it?

Just wondering . . .

1. Except it wasn't a "requirement".... only those called and received the confirmation themselves was Plural Marriage a requirement of Exaltation.
Sure, there would also be in death some more plural marriage when the puzzles were put together to create Eternal Family's for all the righteous, but again, not the same as your statement.

I don't know the percentage offhand, but some 98% of the Church wasn't involved in Plurral Marriage, and the majority of them were just as worthy as single family households. So, shut it with the lying as usual with you anti-mormons.

2. Don't know what you're jibbering about. Not everything is "doctrine" of Gospel that's in scripture. Scripture is simply record, not all of it is "God breathed". Anyway.

3. More lying.... It's still important to have family and be there for family. The church has NEVER "left out" singles and told of their value and worth. It's just not the ideal, but they are still important.

4. More lying..... The Church didn't tell the men to "accept their sexuality and find same sex partners". They chose their lusts over the Gospel. That's their choice, and thus also their choice to sacrifice their children at the alter of their sin.

5. Because your distortion and perversion of everthing Mormon is not "obedience", it's misrepresenting and lying.

[_Lemmie]

Sometimes the LDS Church ends up punishing those who are most obedient:

1. Those who practiced plural marriage were left out on a limb when the Church changed course and made what was formerly a requirement for exaltation grounds for excommunication.

2. When I joined the Church in 1978, I received repeated messages about becoming a scriptorian which I took to heart. After 30-years of studying Mormonism, I found I had learned what was not to be mentioned or taught. I became extinct in my own lifetime.

3. My wife followed the prophet's counsel to sacrifice her career and get married young and have children. Now we have "I'm a Mormon" commercials extolling the virtues of single parents with careers.

4. The LDS Church admonished homosexual men to get married in the temple and have children to solve their "problem." Now after many such marriages have fallen apart upon the husbands accepting their sexuality and finding same-sex partners, the Church comes up with a policy to punish the children these men were told to have. (I'm sure this has happened to women, as well.)

If obedience is the first law of heaven, why do so many Mormons get punished for it?

Just wondering . . .

1. Except it wasn't a "requirement".... only those called and received the confirmation themselves was Plural Marriage a requirement of Exaltation.
Sure, there would also be in death some more plural marriage when the puzzles were put together to create Eternal Family's for all the righteous, but again, not the same as your statement.

I don't know the percentage offhand, but some 98% of the Church wasn't involved in Plurral Marriage, and the majority of them were just as worthy as single family households. So, shut it with the lying as usual with you anti-mormons.

2. Don't know what you're jibbering about. Not everything is "doctrine" of Gospel that's in scripture. Scripture is simply record, not all of it is "God breathed". Anyway.

3. More lying.... It's still important to have family and be there for family. The church has NEVER "left out" singles and told of their value and worth. It's just not the ideal, but they are still important.

4. More lying..... The Church didn't tell the men to "accept their sexuality and find same sex partners". They chose their lusts over the Gospel. That's their choice, and thus also their choice to sacrifice their children at the alter of their sin.

5. Because your distortion and perversion of everthing Mormon is not "obedience", it's misrepresenting and lying.

Re: your 1. Please cite references that only for those who received their own separate 'confirmation' was plural marriage a requirement.

Also, if you don't know the percentage, then your 98% quote is meaningless. Also, provide reference for your meaningless and bizarre statement that 'the majority of [plural marriage households] were just as worthy as single family households.'

Re: your 4. I have been laughing my ass off over this. Try reading a little more carefully. Your misinterpretation is, however, an interesting insight into your brain. You clearly don't read anything here, you just hunt and peck for issues you can attack and inflame.

But keep it up, you are definitely driving people away from Mormonism so I'm sure we can tolerate your idiocy (or block you) if that is the ultimate effect of your posts.