Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

Post by _I have a question »

Harvard University, American University, the University of Vermont and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee are moving away from a binary gender system by allowing students to classify themselves as something other than male or female and encouraging the campus community to call such students by their gender-preferred pronouns.

The distinction of male and female, accompanied by the respective pronouns he and she, has been expanded on these campuses with a nebulous vocabulary of invented pronouns. As fluid as the “gender continuum” they represent, these pronouns represent those individuals who feel that they are “genderqueer,” or do not fall into the categories of male or female.

American University’s Center for Diversity and Inclusion offers a pronoun guide which states “the practice of asking individuals what pronouns they use for themselves should be done in an effort to respect the diversity of gender identities beyond man and woman.”

The university lists four pronouns often used by the transgender community: “ze,” “e,” “per” and “they,” clarifying that “ze” may take two different object forms – “hir” and “zir.” “Ze” may have different spellings, such as “zie,” “sie,” “xie,” and “xe.”

The guide includes the following mandate: “Never argue with or question a person’s gender identity or pronouns.”

The University of Vermont has also validated a third gender with its use of gender-neutral pronouns. The New York Times reports that this result follows nearly a decade of lobbying, a campus-wide campaign from the school’s transgender community, and $80,000 in staff time for the creation of new software.

Dot Brauer, director of UVM’s LGBTQA Center, helped shape the conversation surrounding the adoption of gender-neutral pronouns.

“All of higher ed really needs to be paying attention to this in the classroom and people in employment need to be dealing with this, because I think this conversation is getting louder, not quieter,” Brauer told The College Fix in a phone interview.

“It’s really about inclusion…there really are people in the world who don’t feel completely comfortable being boxed into femininity or masculinity exclusively,” they added. “What we are experiencing now is that there is a growing conversation about those experiences and people want the opportunity to been seen, addressed and recognized as who they are.”

Interestingly, Brauer noted the move toward gender-neutral pronouns actually began outside of universities.

“There’s diversity of opinion everywhere you go. There are more and more corporations out there that are deciding that they want to be on the progressive edge because they want to attract the most talented employees. Corporations have actually been ahead of universities on this front,” they said.

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/24165/

https://www.campuspride.org/tpc/gender- ... e-housing/

The rising generation will be a tide that sweeps organisations like the Church aside and into oblivion.
Society, in time, simply won't stand for homophobia in any form whatsoever. Gender neutrality will be the norm, not the exception. Organisations that maintain traditional gender labels and traditional gender roles will become more and more isolated, leads and less attractive to be part of. It's over, the Church has already lost. It's now just marking time.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_selek
_Emeritus
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:27 am

Re: Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

Post by _selek »

I wonder if, in time, societal pressure will increase to allow practicing gays in the church to the point where they have a another "revelation"...kinda like blacks and the priesthood or polygamy. I doubt it, but it would be interesting. A hundred years from now, if the church survives, and they are hemorrhaging members and money, who knows how desperate they will become. After all, this is the church that abandoned their core principle of polygamy based on pressure from the Feds.

Would the US federal government ever reach a point where they remove tax exempt status from churches who refuse to allow participation based on race or sexual orientation? Again, I doubt they would.
"There is no shame in watching porn." - why me, 08/15/11

"The answer is: ...poontang." - darricktevenson, 01/10/11

Daniel Peterson is a "Gap-Toothed Lizard Man" - Daniel Peterson, 12/06/08

Copyright© 1915 Simon Belmont, Esq., All Rights Up Your Butt.
_palerobber
_Emeritus
Posts: 2026
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 pm

Re: Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

Post by _palerobber »

these new pronouns strike me as a little strange. but then if i stop and think about it, the fact that we have gendered pronouns to begin with is ever stranger. as far as i can tell, the he/she split serves no useful purpose whatsoever. it's as weird as if we had different pronouns for different "races" of people.
_sunstoned
_Emeritus
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:12 am

Re: Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

Post by _sunstoned »

Past Behavior is the Best Predictor of Future Behavior. The church has been on the wrong side of every major social cause for the past one hundred years. Of course the church will lose on their same sex policy. Because it is wrong. Just like their priesthood discrimination was wrong. Just like polygamy was wrong. Just like their opposition of the civil rights movement was wrong. Just like their treatment of women is wrong.
_Johannes
_Emeritus
Posts: 575
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:50 am

Re: Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

Post by _Johannes »

I was genuinely shocked when I heard about the new policy. Not because I didn't believe there were homophobic people high up in the LDS church (and other churches), but because it is a PR blunder of epic proportions to put such an overtly homophobic document on record in the year 2016.

I realise it wasn't intended for public consumption, but they should have known it would leak. And then to double down and claim it was a revelation from God - crazy. Absolutely crazy.
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Why the Church will lose on same sex policy.

Post by _I have a question »

Johannes wrote:I was genuinely shocked when I heard about the new policy. Not because I didn't believe there were homophobic people high up in the LDS church (and other churches), but because it is a PR blunder of epic proportions to put such an overtly homophobic document on record in the year 2016.

I realise it wasn't intended for public consumption, but they should have known it would leak. And then to double down and claim it was a revelation from God - crazy. Absolutely crazy.


Here's the thing.

They thought it wouldn't leak. They thought they could quietly slip the new policy into place behind the backs of the membership. It was planned to go unnoticed and be enforced quietly, by exception, without causing a blip on the PR radar. This tells us an awful lot about the leadership of the Church, none of it good.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
Post Reply