Arkansas woman dies in Oklahoma recreating Mormon trek

[_Jesse Pinkman]

I think that there is much more than dislike of Mormonism going on here. There are some legitimate questions being asked.

We are seeing people questioning why there is this emphasis on re-enacting hand-cart journeys, when only a small proportion of Mormons arrived in Utah that way.

We are seeing people questioning why there is this emphasis on re-enacting hand-cart journeys, when there is considerable reason to hold Brigham Young responsible for insisting that these handcart expeditions should take place when they did, given that there was good reason to know that they were dangerous at the time of year when they were planned.

We are seeing people questioning why there is this emphasis on re-enacting hand-cart journeys, which (unlike normal holiday hiking) involve major physical effort in pushing heavy loads, often clad in unsuitable 'pioneer' costumes, and all this in the height of summer, just the worst time to do that kind of thing.

Mormons did not use to carry out this kind of 're-enactment' activity on a regular basis. Now it seems to be being promoted at the highest levels. If these arduous and stressful activities are repeated in very hot conditions, deaths will inevitably take place that would not otherwise have happened, whatever precautions and rules are put in place.

So why is this policy being followed? What is the benefit that makes the risks worthwhile?

Amen, Chap, amen! Are you sure you were never a Church member? LOL

LDSFAQ, I have been a member of the Church my entire life. I'm 52 years old. I don't think that the promotion of the handcart incident itself is evil. However, there are several common sense issues that are being overlooked:

On a continual basis, kids and leaders are going on these reenactments ill prepared as far as dress, etc.

This unfortunate report of death and injuries is not the first. Similar reports have been going on since this particular activity was introduced.

Even if you feel that the blame rests mainly on the local leaders, they were still inspired to do this by an activity that the Church is actively promoting Church wide. Considering the amount of issues surrounding this particular activity, it is time for the Church to step in and say enough.

There are plenty of other ways to commemorate the hand cart journey. There are plays that could be performed, songs that could be written. Heck, virtual reality games that could be created! But let's stop sacrificing our young people unnecessarily. That has been my point in all of this. As a Mom, that is my point. LDSFAQ, if you are a parent, I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from with this.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

And people die all the time doing similar things that have nothing to do with religion.... There is no "malice" or evil here needing to be condemned.

That makes you bigots, trying to make the church "evil" in some way for simply going on an outdoor hike/activity.
If you all can't get that, then there is no hope for you. Evil has full control over your souls.

Some people recently died while hiking in 100+ degree heat. They were widely excoriated. Stupid is generally looked down upon with the exception being you, of course.

- Doc

[_Jesse Pinkman]

And people die all the time doing similar things that have nothing to do with religion.... There is no "malice" or evil here needing to be condemned.

That makes you bigots, trying to make the church "evil" in some way for simply going on an outdoor hike/activity.
If you all can't get that, then there is no hope for you. Evil has full control over your souls.

Some people recently died while hiking in 100+ degree heat. They were widely excoriated. Stupid is generally looked down upon with the exception being you, of course.

- Doc

LDSFAQ, please read my post above.

[_Aoife]

The more I read the weirder this gets:

Paramedics said they took five juveniles to the hospital for heat-related illnesses last week - three of those minors were unconscious when medics got to camp.

My employment involves coordinating year-round outdoor volunteer work. The work is strenuous and involves hiking across rough terrain, moving/carrying heavy items such as rocks and construction materials, using hand tools to dig, etc. We avoid scheduling events in July and August as a rule, but we also have a set policy of rescheduling and/or cancelling work events whenever the heat index is over 90. A person's life and health are not worth sacrificing for anything that could possibly come out of the event.

Part of the responsibility of running outdoor events is that you have policies, measures, and training in place to address adverse weather conditions. When we are working in hotter weather (below 90), we'll take extra precautions including extra safety training regarding the hot conditions, requiring more water and electrolyte packets/tabs per person, slowing down in general, and taking extra hydration and cool-down breaks. Occasionally, during an event, we'll have a volunteer who is just more sensitive to heat for some reason, whether it be genetics, certain medications, excess weight, lack of fitness, age, etc. As soon as we see someone struggling or if they express that they're struggling, we'll move them off a work-site and into a cooler environment immediately. We've got trained EMS personnel on-site to handle related decision-making and they err on the side of caution. We've never had a heat-related illness progress beyond heat exhaustion. And we've managed thousands of volunteers in these conditions since the early 70's.

That being said, I could see how this kind of situation could happen where an individual isn't aware of their body's limits, or maybe doesn't want to make a big deal about how they're feeling in the heat because they're a leader, etc. Even if the sponsoring organization took all the right precautions-- adequate safety training, healthy policies, adequate EMS staff-- something like this could happen as just an honest miscalculation of a person's own physical condition.

One person having a heat-related health issue is just something that happens from time to time and you have to be prepared to respond appropriately. But, multiple people having heat-related health issues, especially those severe enough to cause loss-of-consciousness, means the conditions are fundamentally unsafe. Seven miles of hiking is nothing to me, generally. But seven miles in 95 degree weather, in full pioneer garb, for novice hikers, is a recipe for disaster. It doesn't require a whole lot of sense or experience to know what should have been done. Leaders should have made the call to cancel or substantially modify the event. And if there were communication issues preventing the organization from having enough information to make the call, or if no one felt like they had the authority to make the call in the interest of saving lives, then that's on the organization too.

This is so utterly terrible. I'm so sorry for her family.

[_Lemmie]

But, multiple people having heat-related health issues, especially those severe enough to cause loss-of-consciousness, means the conditions are fundamentally unsafe.

That right there is the issue. Hopefully the Oklahoma paramedics see this as an issue that is preventable and can take some steps to prevent it, because clearly the lds leadership is not properly overseeing the situation.

[_Aoife]

But, multiple people having heat-related health issues, especially those severe enough to cause loss-of-consciousness, means the conditions are fundamentally unsafe.

That right there is the issue. Hopefully the Oklahoma paramedics see this as an issue that is preventable and can take some steps to prevent it, because clearly the lds leadership is not properly overseeing the situation.

Yes!! I hope the OK paramedics can do some outreach with the church, at least. The Church PR machine stated that they had taken safety precautions, including 10 gallons of water per handcart, and working in stops for shade, swimming and cooling down. I'm not convinced they understand that the issue isn't that they didn't have enough water, or stops, or swimming-- it's that they didn't have guidelines in place for evaluating weather safety and then calling off treks scheduled for unsafe conditions, and that they didn't call the event-in-progress off as soon as a pattern of heat-related illness emerged. It's a horrific organizational failure on at least two levels. In an environment where members are taught to follow authority, and not "steady the ark", rather than assert themselves, it's especially dangerous.

I generally don't have litigious instincts, but I suspect a lawsuit might be the most effective means of getting the church to take their responsibilities more seriously. I know that's not the way members typically work, but it could do some good here.

[_Lemmie]

SLTrib letter of the week, "Time to end pioneer re-enactment treks":

In anticipation of the 150th year since the Mormon Pioneers' arrival in the Salt Lake Valley, Elder M. Russell Ballard invited local church leaders to commemorate the anniversary and "...choose the activities that will be appropriate and important to ensure a spiritually fulfilling experience for your members in 1997."

The stake I belonged to, like many others, organized a re-enactment to pull handcarts through various Wyoming landmarks such as Independence Rock and Rocky Ridge along the Mormon Trail.

In the years since, I have observed family members and friends embark on several "pioneer treks." Aside from being a very expensive activity that requires transportation, food and sanitation, it is not very representative of the Mormon pioneer experience. Only 5 percent of pioneers actually used handcarts.

I have grown ever more concerned that this practice, while well-intentioned, is placing needless risk on young members of the church and their volunteer leaders. During a recent trek activity in Oklahoma, a confluence of factors resulted in the needless and tragic death of one youth leader, Meaghan Blair, a 29-year-old mother of two young children.

I believe the church as a whole has fulfilled Elder Ballard's request from 20 years ago to commemorate the pioneers. I believe that it is time to discontinue these re-enactments.

Ben Leimbach
Holladay
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/4045522-1 ... ek-time-to

[_sock puppet]

I wonder if under Oklahoma criminal code, the adults that planned this outing, from the Stake Pres on down, could be held liable for child endangerment since these teenagers were under age.

[_Dr Exiled]

I wonder if under Oklahoma criminal code, the adults that planned this outing, from the Stake Pres on down, could be held liable for child endangerment since these teenagers were under age.

Theorically speaking probably yes. However practically speaking I don't think a prosecutor would bring criminal charges for something like this. There are probably more churches per capita in OK than almost anywhere and bringing charges against a church would be difficult politically.

[_sock puppet]

I wonder if under Oklahoma criminal code, the adults that planned this outing, from the Stake Pres on down, could be held liable for child endangerment since these teenagers were under age.

Theorically speaking probably yes. However practically speaking I don't think a prosecutor would bring criminal charges for something like this. There are probably more churches per capita in OK than almost anywhere and bringing charges against a church would be difficult politically.

Oh, certainly. I don't think they'd be prosecuted unless it was one of the teens rather than an adult who had died. But 'theoretically' sure looks damning nonetheless for the culprits that promoted this misadventure if it meets the statutory definition in Oklahoma.