Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

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_I have a question
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Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _I have a question »

PROVO, Utah — Pay attention now, class. A major transformation is underway within the LDS Church, reshaping all teaching and learning from Sunday School courses to the priesthood.

The shake up is radical, but members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are only beginning to grasp the breadth and depth of a fresh emphasis on the learning process through the introduction of new methods, teaching manuals and curriculum.

"We have had a revolution in teaching in the church. Most of you have not caught onto it yet, but the Brethren are modeling it," LDS employee Ronald Schwendiman told an Education Week audience at Brigham Young University last year.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... rners.html

"Focus first and foremost not on 'What I'm going to do'?" he suggested, "but on 'What do I want my learners to be doing. How can I help them do that?' A teacher might ask, 'How do I invite and help those around me to learn for themselves?'"

Inviting, encouraging and providing students with opportunities to use their agency helps them assume responsibility for their own learning and empowers personal conversion, or what church leaders call "real growth."


When you think about it, this kind of learning is exactly what correlation was designed to eradicate.
So, less of a revolution, more of a disavowing of the years of correlated teaching.
It's like flares are back in fashion.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_deacon blues
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _deacon blues »

Sometimes church people seem to have a very tenuous connection with reality. This is an example of misdirection. The real problem is the church hasn't faced it's real history yet. :rolleyes: For example see the "Apostles are utterly disconnected with membership" thread.
_mentalgymnast
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _mentalgymnast »

I have a question wrote:
PROVO, Utah — Pay attention now, class. A major transformation is underway within the LDS Church, reshaping all teaching and learning from Sunday School courses to the priesthood.

The shake up is radical, but members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are only beginning to grasp the breadth and depth of a fresh emphasis on the learning process through the introduction of new methods, teaching manuals and curriculum.

"We have had a revolution in teaching in the church. Most of you have not caught onto it yet, but the Brethren are modeling it," LDS employee Ronald Schwendiman told an Education Week audience at Brigham Young University last year.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... rners.html

"Focus first and foremost not on 'What I'm going to do'?" he suggested, "but on 'What do I want my learners to be doing. How can I help them do that?' A teacher might ask, 'How do I invite and help those around me to learn for themselves?'"

Inviting, encouraging and providing students with opportunities to use their agency helps them assume responsibility for their own learning and empowers personal conversion, or what church leaders call "real growth."


When you think about it, this kind of learning is exactly what correlation was designed to eradicate.
So, less of a revolution, more of a disavowing of the years of correlated teaching.
It's like flares are back in fashion.


This change is good. I just received a new calling to teach 16 year old youth on Sunday. I'm happy to use the new curriculum. It opens itself to more interaction and questioning among students and teachers. It's a good direction. We ought to be excited about it, in my opinion.

Regards,
MG
_I have a question
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _I have a question »

mentalgymnast wrote:This change is good. I just received a new calling to teach 16 year old youth on Sunday.

Great, you get to explain to them why mid-thirty year old Joseph married a girl two years younger than them.

I'm happy to use the new curriculum. It opens itself to more interaction and questioning among students and teachers. It's a good direction. We ought to be excited about it, in my opinion.

Regards,
MG


Consiglieri was removed from his teaching calling because he taught in this 'new' manner.
Let's see what happens when the questioning starts...
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Sethbag
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _Sethbag »

The only question they really welcome is "what more does the church want me to know?"

That's it. "Questioning" is the code word Mormons typically use for someone who's starting to realize that the church isn't really all it's cracked up to be. They hardly wish to encourage that.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_mentalgymnast
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _mentalgymnast »

I have a question wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:This change is good. I just received a new calling to teach 16 year old youth on Sunday.

Great, you get to explain to them why mid-thirty year old Joseph married a girl two years younger than them.

I'm happy to use the new curriculum. It opens itself to more interaction and questioning among students and teachers. It's a good direction. We ought to be excited about it, in my opinion.

Regards,
MG


Consiglieri was removed from his teaching calling because he taught in this 'new' manner.
Let's see what happens when the questioning starts...


I'm not sure that if this question came up that we would necessarily be able to explain fully what was going on with Joseph's polygamy. But I think that polygamy itself and what we know and don't know ought to be discussed. So if the question comes up, we'll talk about it.

Regards,
MG
_Dr. Shades
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _Dr. Shades »

mentalgymnast wrote:I'm not sure that if this question came up that we would necessarily be able to explain fully what was going on with Joseph's polygamy.

In that case, have them send me a message. I'd be happy to fully explain what was going on with Joseph's polygamy.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_sock puppet
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _sock puppet »

mentalgymnast wrote:I'm not sure that if this question came up that we would necessarily be able to explain fully what was going on with Joseph's polygamy. But I think that polygamy itself and what we know and don't know ought to be discussed. So if the question comes up, we'll talk about it.

Regards,
MG

I'm curious how you might explain this statement by JSJr after he'd been 'married' to more than 30 of women, which statement he made according to the LDS-published History of the Church on 5/26/1844:

What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.


So JSJr did not consider these women other than Emma (assuming that was the one and only women he could find that was a wife) with whom he was having sex to be 'wives'. Please explain how then that this was not adultery, given that JSJr did not consider, even subjectively, such women other than Emma to be 'wives'? It's okay if you just explain what you'd say about this specific admission by JSJr that those other women were not considered by him to be 'wives', in a class with this new latitude to discuss.
_mentalgymnast
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Dr. Shades wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:I'm not sure that if this question came up that we would necessarily be able to explain fully what was going on with Joseph's polygamy.

In that case, have them send me a message. I'd be happy to fully explain what was going on with Joseph's polygamy.


To keep a balance, however, I'd also have them send a message to the Hales. Even they aren't able to fully explain what was going on. With no disrespect, what makes you think you can? Fully. For one thing, you've got to factor in all the women who had a 'testimony' of polygamy being from God and enjoyed/appreciated their sister wives.

But, I think it would also be important for these sixteen year old youth to see both sides of the coin. If they ask questions that get a bit dicey, I could use you as a 'go to' guy along with the Hales and/or other faithful sources?

Hmmm...as I think about it though, I'm not sure their parents would appreciate a "Dr. Shades" reference or recommendation for their children's investigation. Better hold off on that... :smile:

Regards,
MG
_mentalgymnast
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Re: Everyone back to Sunday School...Correlation is dead.

Post by _mentalgymnast »

sock puppet wrote:I'm curious how you might explain this statement by JSJr after he'd been 'married' to more than 30 of women, which statement he made according to the LDS-published History of the Church on 5/26/1844:

What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.


So JSJr did not consider these women other than Emma (assuming that was the one and only women he could find that was a wife) with whom he was having sex to be 'wives'. Please explain how then that this was not adultery, given that JSJr did not consider, even subjectively, such women other than Emma to be 'wives'? It's okay if you just explain what you'd say about this specific admission by JSJr that those other women were not considered by him to be 'wives', in a class with this new latitude to discuss.


Remember...I'm teaching a Sunday School class with sixteen year old youth. It's not a discussion board. I'd probably start...and end...here:

Joseph was refuting the charge of adultery, not the fact that he had "seven wives"
History of The Church 6:410-411:
I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.
This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.[11]....
A man asked me whether the commandment was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery. I never had any fuss with these men until that Female Relief Society brought out the paper against adulterers and adulteresses.
Dr. Goforth was invited into the Laws' clique, and Dr. Foster and the clique were dissatisfied with that document,[12] and they rush away and leave the Church, and conspire to take away my life; and because I will not countenance such wickedness,[13] they proclaim that I have been a true prophet, but that I am now a fallen prophet.
[Joseph H.] Jackson[14] has committed murder, robbery, and perjury; and I can prove it by half-a-dozen witnesses. Jackson got up and said—"By God, he is innocent," and now swears that I am guilty. He threatened my life.
There is another Law, not the prophet, who was cashiered for dishonesty and robbing the government. Wilson Law also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery. Brother Jonathan Dunham can swear to the contrary. I have been chained. I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for the truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.
When I love the poor, I ask no favors of the rich. I can go to the cross—I can lay down my life; but don't forsake me. I want the friendship of my brethren.—Let us teach the things of Jesus Christ. Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a downfall.
Be meek and lowly, upright and pure; render good for evil. If you bring on yourselves your own destruction, I will complain. It is not right for a man to bare down his neck to the oppressor always. Be humble and patient in all circumstances of life; we shall then triumph more gloriously. What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.
I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience; and then I sent my brother Hyrum, whom they virtually kicked out of doors.[15]
Note the rejection of the term "spiritual wifeism". Note that "spiritual wifeism" likely refers to John C. Bennett's pattern of seduction and sexual license, which the Saints were always at pains to deny.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Criticism_of_M ... Chapter_13


You don't think I'm going to invite you to my Sunday School class do you? Beyond a reference such as the one above I don't think I would take it much further. But I'd encourage them to look at more resources if they feel like they need to. I'd encourage them to keep a sense of balance as they do and know that they are going to find 'evidence' on both sides of the track. That there is a divide between faith and doubt. That opposition creates this divide.

Stuff like that. But I'd not be opposed/surprised if something like what you describe could happen in class.

We shall see. :wink:

Regards,
MG
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