Some thoughts...

[_mentalgymnast]

The last couple of days have been interesting. Apparently Shades has pulled the threads that I was accused of being a "troll" and put them downstairs.

Poof.

Back in May of this year Sanctorian said this to me:

You're a mopologist which means you'll be dishonest in your discussion of Mormonism to protect its claims. That's fine. Just own it.

That's the common consensus here. The majority of active LDS posters have been treated this way on this board. Unless they don't rock the boat in any way and 'play nice' all of the time.

This dogmatic axiom put forward by Sanctorian applies to anyone who either believes in or gives the benefit of a doubt to the truth claims of the LDS Church. We are dishonest. Period. We lack integrity. Period. We are somehow, well, just deficient and untrustworthy.

And in an echo chamber such as this, the voice of reason/balance/questioning will be drowned out through heckling/innuendo/name calling. Or that voice will be renamed as something else that has a negative connotation. Troll. The person will be called a di**wad or some other potty mouth label. And there are team players that work together to accomplish a common goal. Diss Mormonism. Diss its leaders. Diss members who haven't turned against the church or its teachings. Diss any post that doesn't follow the party line.

And that's the way it is.

I hope lurkers are intuitive enough to recognize the dynamics that act as the foundational underpinnings of this board.

Shades, you didn't even give a reason for why you pulled the aforementioned threads. I was totally OK with lurkers or anyone else thoughtfully going through the posts on each of the purported "troll" threads and looking/seeing at what goes on here between the believers and the non-believers. All grindael had to do was start whining "TROLL" and you caved. You respect his views as he is an unbeliever like yourself. You both ultimately have the same agenda.

Interesting that these threads were effectively taken out of the public view. That says something about the freedom of expression on this board.

Sad.

It is more than likely that I will now be called a "whiner" or some other designative term that diminishes my humanity/honesty/integrity in some form or fashion. It's par for the course.

This most recent exchange turns on the light to the fact that there really is only one right way...or it's the highway on this board.

Either diss the church and its leaders/doctrine...or find another place to express your views. Yours aren't welcome here.

Toxic.

This thread will more than likely disappear also. Well, OTOH, it may not if it has enough folks that pipe in to support the board agenda.

Freedom of expression. Yeah, right.

"Yes, you can say that here!"

No you can't...or you're a Troll.

Oh, maybe I have it all wrong...and the threads were pulled because of what others did/said...and it wasn't me.

If so, I stand all amazed.

I'm actually not going to come back in on this thread unless I see something that demands attention. But I won't respond to the "egging on" posts that a few posters delight in posting. I'm not going to go through a pschotherapy session. I know what I'm all about and am comfortable in my own skin. I just wanted to express some thoughts...that may disappear. I realize there are going to be those at this point that will enter in and "call me out" in one way or another. I will leave it to those lurkers and others that are not in the forefront to determine the 'guilt' or 'innocence' of yours truly.

In the past I've enjoyed coming into threads or starting threads and having conversations with folks like canpakes, honor, and others (it was kind of fun!). Those days seem to be on the wane because other folks...especially Lemmie and grindael...feel it their calling to come into almost every thread I participate on and start throwing verbal grenades (accusations of dishonesty, lack of intellectual integrity and the like) around to get the thread off topic.

That's troll like, in my opinion.

That does get old. I would hope that others can see the 'game' they're playing. I doubt anyone will step forward, however, and acknowledge that this may indeed be true.

Again, spout the part line or find the highway. That seems to be the common consensus around here.

Hey grindael! Your long post on Joseph's spiritual wifery is awesome and well researched! You da' man!

Maybe that statement will keep this thread here for at least a few hours. We'll see.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Oh, one other thing. Shades, if you were away you may or may not have noticed that when grindael came running to you and asking for help with "the Troll" that he was either in the process of or already had deleted a number of his own posts on his own thread.

You have to kind of wonder why.

Or not.

Regards,
MG

[_Philo Sofee]

Well.... I honestly never did see you engage anything Grindael posted on Jo's spiritual wifery..... there is that.

[_moksha]

Mentalgymnast, good work in spotting that Grindael's use of large typeface is the work of the Adversary. Even his name is suggestive of some witchcraft stemming from the time of Beowulf. by the way, feel free to use that in any future spats with Grindael.

[_Lemmie]

It's convenient that you post the way you do, mental, on a board where you define yourself as the minority. That way, when people call you on your behavior, you can always excuse yourself by announcing, repeatedly, what a victim and martyr you are.

Ironically, people's objections to your behavior tonight had not a single thing to do with the religion you practice, yet, true to form, you wrapped up your involvement with a speech about how EVERYONE ELSE BUT YOU IS AT FAULT FOR HOW YOUR POSTS WERE PERCEIVED.

It's a pretty cowardly and shallow way to never take responsibility for your own words, but you seem to have perfected it. One would think that you would post on a Mormon board, but I have a feeling that deep down, you know what you are, and you can't face having people call you out for your crap when you don't have a fake outer excuse to fall back on. So, you come here and find amusement in being a creepy troll. That's all you, mental, not your religion.

[_Lemmie]

Well.... I honestly never did see you engage anything Grindael posted on Jo's spiritual wifery..... there is that.

Indeed.

[_Sanctorian]

Back in May of this year Sanctorian said this to me:

You're a mopologist which means you'll be dishonest in your discussion of Mormonism to protect its claims. That's fine. Just own it.

That's the common consensus here. The majority of active LDS posters have been treated this way on this board. Unless they don't rock the boat in any way and 'play nice' all of the time.

This dogmatic axiom put forward by Sanctorian applies to anyone who either believes in or gives the benefit of a doubt to the truth claims of the LDS Church. We are dishonest. Period. We lack integrity. Period. We are somehow, well, just deficient and untrustworthy.

Regards,
MG

Your argument has nothing to do with your beliefs. It's your dishonest approach to how you defend those beliefs to which nearly everyone calls you out. BCSpace, churchistrue and others that are believers in the church that post here are not dishonest in there approach to defending Mormonism.

That's the difference and which makes you the target of so much "calling out". This very thread shows how dishonest you are. You come in, start a thread to "show the lurkers" how the echo chamber treats believers and bail with no substance. You conveniently neglect to inform the "lurkers" of the hundreds of threads where different opinions from believers and non-believers had respectful dialogue. That's dishonest and in no way true to all the believers that are respected for their beliefs when they post here and actually have something of value to add to the conversation.

You on the other hand are a one sided conversationalist with a dishonest approach to how you defend your opinions which is why you are a mopologist.

[_Sanctorian]

Some additional thoughts for the "lurkers", I had lunch today with my very good TBM friend. We had a wonderful discussion about religion. He shared his beliefs and I shared mine. At the end of lunch, we both left feeling like we learned from each other and were enlightened by our opposing opinions. That's how a discussion should work. It doesn't ever work that way with MG.

[_mentalgymnast]

Some additional thoughts for the "lurkers", I had lunch today with my very good TBM friend. We had a wonderful discussion about religion. He shared his beliefs and I shared mine. At the end of lunch, we both left feeling like we learned from each other and were enlightened by our opposing opinions. That's how a discussion should work. It doesn't ever work that way with MG.

I have had similar experiences also. My in real life conversations/interactions with all types/kinds of folks with varying points of view/beliefs typically end with the same "feeling" you describe. And have also had some positive experiences in conversations/discussions here. More so in times past. Fewer and fewer in the last while. I don't think I've changed. I still like the good conversation/discussion. I suppose it may have something to do with the medium of virtual communication rather than in real life interactions. Also, folks come and go. That makes a difference.

One other thing. Familiarity breeds contempt. Or at least the potential is there. One thinks that they are "familiar" and/or know a person through continued interaction online. Some folks here...including yourself...think they know me. There are very few people, if any, on this board that I would be bold enough to say that I really know much about...at all. I think we get into some rather fuzzy areas in online discussion as to what we can discern in regards to the 'whole person' vs. the the persona that we come up with to represent folks that are typing on a keyboard and expressing points of view in a narrow area of discussion. When that area of discussion is religion or politics feelings can be rather tender/sensitive. Misunderstandings and misconceptions may be the result. It's unfortunate the the interactions here cannot carry over into real life where we can actually really know a person in a fuller sense.

You really don't know me...and I sure as heck fire don't know much of anything about you except for your distaste for Mormonism, etc. Same with just about everyone else here. The two folks here that I have met in real life have been a joy to be with, even if it was for a short amount of time. I could put a face to the person and then appreciate WHO they were. OTOH, I don't know Lemmie. Not at all. I could make some assumptions about her...but I could be wrong. She thinks she knows me...her word "creepy" comes to mind. But...she doesn't know me at ALL. She has made some assumptions that are drastically inaccurate. They've stuck. And there is NO way that I would be able to convince her otherwise.

I suppose that's why in some ways I see this board as being toxic, in a sense. It's not REAL. It's contrived. There are agendas. Virtual identities become distorted through repeated accusations and or repeated assaults, etc.

There slowly develops afeeling of toxicity in some respects when one knows they are being misrepresented and can't do much about it. in real life doesn't feel that way at all when we are able to sit down and get to know someone.

So I hear what you're saying.

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

Freedom of expression. Yeah, right.

Has your freedom of expression been restricted on most threads you have participated in? Seems most often people are allowed to say what they want as long as it is on topic. Most TBMs avoid this place because of this. The original site before this one had good numbers of people in both camps, but over time believers have left for more controlled sites in favor of believers. Those who have the support of evidence love to go to sites that are dominated by by believers in ideas without much supportive evidence. They usually don't last long before being banned.