To all you old timers...

[Guest]

... and I mean that with all the respect in the world.

I want to know about your pace of apostasy. It seems the people leaving the church in the last 5 years are doing so at a lightning fast pace. Here's what happened with me.

100% believing TBM
Friend posts article on Facebook that was similar to CES letter on a Saturday night.
I read it that night and went from 100% TBM to 99% doubter within 30 minutes.
Went to bishopric meeting in the morning and told bishop I needed a meeting with him set up for that Tuesday.
Tuesday comes around and I tell bishop I need to be released as I don't believe the truth claims anymore.
I spend the next year reading hundreds of hours of material and become a 100% doubter and have my name removed from the records.

My story is not unique in today's environment. People leaving today are doing so at blazing fast pace due to the availability of the information. To some of you that started this journey prior to Facebook, CESletter, Mormonthink, etc, what was your pace?

[_Black Moclips]

100% TBM for 30 years - Mission, BYU, Temple Marriage, etc

5 years - a slow decent from 100% to about 50% - As I delve into the information on the internet, I start to have doubts, and realize there is a chance the church isn't true. I start posting on message boards, reading whatever I could get my hands on, etc. I begin to explore other ideas of spirituality.

5 years of limbo at about 50% - I realize I have no testimony and have no idea whether the claims of the church are true. I attend church sporadically and have low level callings, but I realize more and more that no part of "activity" makes me happy.

The last 5 years has been a steady decent to about 3%, coupled with complete inactivity, no tithing, no garments, pretty much done with it all. I still hold out the possibility that I'm wrong. I still wonder if something miraculous happened in the early days of the church, but strongly believe that even if it did, the current church is not what was meant to be.

So my change has taken a lot of time. I chalk that up to being raised in a great LDS ward where I had tons of friends and family. I had great experiences in the church and can't complain about those early days at all. So I wanted it to work for my family and tried for a while. When my ULTRA TBM wife (who supported me all along the way but wanted nothing to do with my doubts or information) just dropped attendance and belief cold turkey, I knew it was over.

[_Dr. Shades]

In my case, it was about a six- to eight-month process, reading lots of books. Although the Internet was a thing, search engines weren't what they are today, so material on the Internet played no real part in my disaffection.

When my ULTRA TBM wife (who supported me all along the way but wanted nothing to do with my doubts or information) just dropped attendance and belief cold turkey, I knew it was over.

What was her external impetus to make such a drastic change?

Also, . . . to what does your username refer?

[_Res Ipsa]

Start to finish, I'd say 18 months. But the pace was lots faster in the last three.

[_DrW]

BIC.

Was a believer as a kid, but skipped Church when I could as a pre-teen.

Became more active as a teenager. Lived in a great branch in a rural farming community. Had lots of friends and dated some great Mormon girls, but the high quality girlfriends were Catholic.

Married a then TBM from Germany.

Conflicts with settled science became painfully obvious in college.

Eventually moved to Europe. Attended for family reasons when overseas.

Back in the States, the Hoffmann affair was an important milestone that accelerated both private and public rejection of the Church.

Was completely out by my early 30's - even though wife and kids stayed in.

Animosity towards the Church increased in my late 30's and 40's as I saw the damage that belief in Mormonism was doing to my father and many members of my extended Mormon family. Animosity has leveled off. I just see Mormonism as a monumental scam.

Extended (supposedly TBM) family doesn't bring up the issue. Some of them are even becoming a bit embarrassed about their membership, I think.

Wife is now (barely) NOM - knows its mostly BS, but old habits die hard.

Surviving parent knows it is mostly BS, but still attends now and then.

So, from start to finish in terms of behavior in public - probably 40 years or so. In terms of internal belief, I knew it was BS for a certainty in my 20's.

Cannot say that I regret time spent in the Church. I feel fortunate to have exited as I did, but would never go back - under any circumstances.

[_Black Moclips]

In my case, it was about a six- to eight-month process, reading lots of books. Although the Internet was a thing, search engines weren't what they are today, so material on the Internet played no real part in my disaffection.

When my ULTRA TBM wife (who supported me all along the way but wanted nothing to do with my doubts or information) just dropped attendance and belief cold turkey, I knew it was over.

What was her external impetus to make such a drastic change?

Also, . . . to what does your username refer?

The easy one first - I got the screen name "Black Moclips" from a series of sci-fi/fantasy novels written by Terry Brooks - the first book being "The Sword of Shannara". In one of the later trilogies, an Elven flying ship was called "The Black Moclips". I thought it sounded cool. [Weird side note. My first copy of the book "The Sword of Shannara" was given to me by my second cousin, who moved in down the street when I was in 6th grade. His name was Justin Helzer - yeah, the Mormon guy that along with his brother Taylor went on to become famous murderers in the bay area community. Just the other day I found that paperback he had given me - its all thrashed and dirty and moldy, but I still have it. Weird when I think about him (he committed suicide in prison a few years ago).]

Regarding my wife - I don't think there was any one single thing that was "the" item that caused her to pack it up. She is a very kind, and loving person and her faith was simple. If the church would have just focused on Jesus and serving people in the community (you know, feeding the hungry, providing for the homeless, real charity) then I think she would have stayed. Those things bring her joy. What didn't bring her joy? Callings, being put on the spot for all kinds of things like playing the piano or giving a lesson, forced friendships, fake and judgmental people, fighting with the kids to get to church, trying to convince the kids church was good for them, meetings all the time, etc, etc, etc. Sunday's were the worst day of the week and she would come home tired and exhausted. Never happy, never spiritually filled. She would almost jump for joy when there was a Stake Conference or General Conference and we didn't have to go. Even in our most TBM days, we treated these as vacation days (despite letters from Church specifically stating they were NOT vacation days). Every now and then, in her moments of frustration, I would ask her "If this isn't making you happy, why are you still going?" She would get mad at that question, because it hit home and she didn't know how to reply.

Then there was some sort of two or three week gap where her and the kids didn't go to church. We were on vacation, and then there was a conference, I can't remember the exact circumstance. But during those few weeks, she was happy, relaxed, and almost like a new person. I said "You know, it can be like this all the time if you want." And she agreed. She had had enough.

Since then we have talked at length about the church. After 20+ years of marriage, I thought I knew my wife and what she believed! Turns out I had no idea about certain things. She doesn't believe in the accuracy of ancient scriptures, miracles, etc. She doesn't believe there is any one true church, and never did. She doesn't believe God will answer prayers in the way the church teaches. She doesn't like how gays are treated in the church (our kids have some gay friends and she was deeply embarrassed by the whole gay parent/baptism issue last year and how that all played out)...........She had all these different views, but there was no one in the church she could discuss them with, and didn't want to confide in me because she felt she had to be the strong one given that I had been on the decline.

Its been less than a year but she doesn't regret it. I think because some of our kids are still young, she is scared about not having the church as frame work, but we will get through that. Nothing has really changed with regards to our morals or ethics. We are the same people in that aspect. We just don't need the negative force of the church in our lives anymore. I realize that some people are quite happy in the church and I'm totally down with people being where they feel is best. I don't view the church as negative absolutely. I think some people need and want that type of domineering structure. Others, like me, grow away from it due to issues with its history and claims, and others, like my wife, just don't find happiness in it anymore.

I'm not sure I'm doing the story justice, but that's what I got on a Thursday afternoon from work.

[_Res Ipsa]

That's a helluva story, Black Moclips. Thanks for telling it.

[_grindael]

My doubts started on my mission. I had some great companions, but the last year was hell. I was assigned a former Assistant to the MP and he was a devious, heartless, piece of crap. I wrote it off as an aberration, and went to BYU. There, I started collecting books and was touring around Southern Utah going to bookstores and found some books written by Fundamentalists on Adam God. I was shocked. I reread everything in the John Dehlin and other books in a new light, without the lens of the "faithful" narrative.

I went to my Bishop and Stake President. I met with an Apostle. I was given Mark Peterson's book about Adam by this Apostle and saw it was full of lies. That was the end. I finished that Semester and went home. I met with my Stake President and told him to take my name off. He asked why and I said Adam God. He knew me, (I was the resident Church Historian in the Ward growing up) and knew he could not defend it. He did so without ONE objection. That really shocked me. This all took about a year.

I was living out west and moved back east where I grew up and promptly forgot about Mormonism. Seldom thought about it for 25 years. Seriously. Then in 2008 a couple of Missionaries knocked on my door, and I did some research to refresh my memory. I only met with them twice and then they never showed up again, although another set did, and that was only once. After that, I never heard from them again. But always being interested in Mormon History, I started studying it with a vengeance, and here I am. Discussing and writing about what I learn.

[_JLHPROF]

My doubts started on my mission. I had some great companions, but the last year was hell. I was assigned a former Assistant to the MP and he was a devious, heartless, piece of ____. I wrote it off as an aberration, and went to BYU. There, I started collecting books and was touring around Southern Utah going to bookstores and found some books written by Fundamentalists on Adam God. I was shocked. I reread everything in the John Dehlin and other books in a new light, without the lens of the "faithful" narrative.

I went to my Bishop and Stake President. I met with an Apostle. I was given Mark Peterson's book about Adam by this Apostle and saw it was full of lies. That was the end. I finished that Semester and went home. I met with my Stake President and told him to take my name off. He asked why and I said Adam God. He knew me, (I was the resident Church Historian in the Ward growing up) and knew he could not defend it. He did so without ONE objection. That really shocked me. This all took about a year.

I was living out west and moved back east where I grew up and promptly forgot about Mormonism. Seldom thought about it for 25 years. Seriously. Then in 2008 a couple of Missionaries knocked on my door, and I did some research to refresh my memory. I only met with them twice and then they never showed up again, although another set did, and that was only once. After that, I never heard from them again. But always being interested in Mormon History, I started studying it with a vengeance, and here I am. Discussing and writing about what I learn.

Could you clarify what it was about Adam-God that caused your disaffection? (Only if you want to of course).
Was that it was once taught? Was it that the Church misrepresented that it was taught? Was it that it was taught and is now disavowed?
It seems like a strange topic to drive a young member from the Church all those years ago, especially given that it isn't a doctrine of the Church for the past 120 years.

[_Gadianton]

Militant chapel Mormon til mission. It took A few years, but it was backwards for me because I quit believing in Christianity first. I had this loose God belief out of fear of mortality and rejection of evolution. A few years later, I accepted evolution and full atheist. The status of the church was in this weird limbo because it was contingent on more general concerns and I went back and forth between despising church leadership and learning the real history and despising EVs for their attacks on the church given what I'd seen of them, and I also despised positivist and new atheism, even though I pretty much agree with Dawkins that in practice, accept evolution and it's all over.