Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

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_Madison54
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Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Madison54 »

The story Holland relates is pretty unbelievable (he even quotes the people involved as if he witnessed it himself, but won't reveal who they are).

Do you believe it happened or is this another exaggeration, embellishment or complete fabrication from Elder Holland?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... -says.html

Elder Holland closed by relating a story — being careful to protect the privacy and anonymity of the participants — of a young man from southern Idaho. One night the young man stormed out of the house and set off to join an infamous motorcycle gang. He succeeded in that resolve and for 20 years became immersed in a culture “of temptations yielded to and degradations explored,” never contacting his parents, who feared that he was dead.

Eventually ending up in Southern California, he one day was sitting on the porch of a rented home when he saw two LDS missionaries making their way up the street.

“With a rush of memory and guilt, regret and rage, he despised the very sight of them,” Elder Holland recounted. “But he was safe, because he kept all visitors at bay by employing two Doberman Pinschers who viciously charged the gate every moment that anyone came near.”

The dogs startled the missionaries as they passed by and continued on, “our man on the porch laughing at the lovely little drama he had just witnessed, wishing only that the gate hadn’t restrained his two dogs.”

Then, the two elders stopped, looked at each other, conversed a little, “likely said a silent prayer,” then turned around and approached the gate.

“The Dobermans on cue charged the gate again, hit it, snarling, frothing, and then stopped in their tracks,” Elder Holland said. “They looked at the missionaries, dropped their heads, ambled back to the front steps and lay down.”

The man on the porch was speechless as they missionaries opened the gate, walked up the path and greeted him.

“One of the elders said, ‘Are you from this part of California?’

“The man said, ‘No. If you want to know, I’m from Pocatello, Idaho.’

“There was a pause. ‘That’s interesting,’ the elder said. ‘Do you know the [such-and-such] family in Pocatello?’

“With a stunned look, our biker paused, and then, in very measured words, said, ‘Yeah, I know them. They are my parents.’

“ ‘Well, they’re my parents too,’ the missionary said. ‘God has sent me to invite you to come home.’ ”

The younger brother had been born after the older boy had left home. The elder brother did not even know of him.

“Mom and Dad have been praying for you every morning and night for 20 years,” the younger brother said. “They were not sure you were alive, but they knew if you were, that someday you would come back to us.”

The wayward son invited the two in, and they talked for the rest of the day and some of the night. He did return home, returned to Church activity and, in March 2015, was married and sealed in the Boise Idaho Temple.

Commenting on the account, Elder Holland said, “This is a story of the role of Almighty God, the Savior of the World, and the Holy Ghost involved in the work of the ministry to which we’ve been called.

“The Holy Ghost prompted those parents to keep praying, to keep believing, to keep trusting. … The Holy Ghost inspired that rebellious boy to come to himself like the prodigal he was and to head for California. … The Holy Ghost influenced that younger son to serve a mission and be willing to accept a call to Southern California. … The Holy Ghost inspired one of my brethren in the Twelve, who was on the assignment desk that Friday, to trust his impression and assign that young man for service not a great distance from his native-born state. The Holy Ghost inspired that mission president to assign that young missionary to that district and that member unit. The Holy Ghost led those missionaries to that street, that day, that hour, with big brother sitting on the porch waiting, and, with Doberman Pinschers notwithstanding, the Holy Ghost prompted those to elders to stop, talk and in spite of their fear, to go back and present their message. …

“And, through the elders, the Holy Ghost taught repentance and brought true conversion to one coming back into the fold.”

Elder Holland said the young elder, without realizing it, gave the missionary speech of all time, when he said to his brother, “God has sent me here to invite you to come home.”
_Madison54
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Madison54 »

Here are some comments about it over on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... m-comments
_honorentheos
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _honorentheos »

In broad outlines I don't have a problem with it. A guy from Idaho joins a biker gang and moves to California. His dogs react differently to a biological sibling who by pure chance ends up serving an LDS mission in the area and happens to contact him. How the missionaries acted is exactly how missionaries act all the time. I could point out a few examples where we stopped and turned back to talk to the guy with the nose ring or colored spiked hair and they turned out to be very interested in talking about the things missionaries talk about. In hindsight, it was more odd for the successful clean-cut business type to want to talk with us. They had a good life that they believed they had figured out.

The fact that this seems out of the norm and improbable is really the point. Improbable but possible things happen all the time, though, so of course it seems like a miracle but has nothing really miraculous in the story that isn't as easily seen as just unlikely but possible. And of course Holland takes advantage of it.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Madison54
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Madison54 »

honorentheos wrote:In broad outlines I don't have a problem with it. A guy from Idaho joins a biker gang and moves to California. His dogs react differently to a biological sibling who by pure chance ends up serving an LDS mission in the area and happens to contact him. How the missionaries acted is exactly how missionaries act all the time. I could point out a few examples where we stopped and turned back to talk to the guy with the nose ring or colored spiked hair and they turned out to be very interested in talking about the things missionaries talk about. In hindsight, it was more odd for the successful clean-cut business type to want to talk with us. They had a good life that they believed they had figured out.

The fact that this seems out of the norm and improbable is really the point. Improbable but possible things happen all the time, though, so of course it seems like a miracle but has nothing really miraculous in the story that isn't as easily seen as just unlikely but possible. And of course Holland takes advantage of it.

I agree with this. I doubt the story is a complete fabrication, but I do believe he exaggerated or embellished to make it more dramatic, miraculous or touching.

I think one of the posters over on Reddit is probably pretty accurate with what may have really happened:

Here is my guess at what ACTUALLY happened.
Son 1 gets fed up with living at home and leaves, his parents call him from time to time and tell him how horrible he is for leaving so he ends up stopping all contact with them.
Son 2 is born and goes on a mission, gets called to California where he knows his brother is living, probably thinks "oh my gosh, what if I find my brother and convert him"
Son 2 finds out where he lives and goes there, notices 2 dogs chained up and barking, but enters anyways. The dogs either were chained up as to stop them from attacking, or they really weren't as terrible of dogs as described.
Son 1 has been down on his luck and maybe actually did think about his family.
Son 2 pretends like he happened upon his address by pure revelation from God.
Son 1 is high and believes him.
They lived happily ever after /s
Coincidences DO happen, but I guarantee Holland stretched some facts, especially with HIS track record.
_honorentheos
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _honorentheos »

That could be. Even if the story happened exactly as recounted, though, the odds of something like it happening to any one person are slim but the odds of something like it happening among the ga-billions upon ga-billions of human encounters that happen in an undefined swath of time become almost 100%.

in my opinion, part of dealing with reality v. religion is recognizing how much of the chicanery of the religious leader is their willingness to take advantage of unlikely but possible events occurring. And while skepticism is always justified, it doesn't seem important to impeach the evidence. It could have happened, and that doesn't make Mormonism true. Joseph still slept around behind Emma's back, there is no evidence for Nephites, and the Book of Abraham facsimiles demonstrate the obvious fraud of Smith's translation attempts. So some guy found his brother in So Cal? Ok, Elder Holland. Cool story.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Gadianton
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Gadianton »

It's entirely possible that the missionary tracted out his own brother by chance. It's also possible the younger brother did some research -- if his bro owned the house, not that hard. If the bro had a record, that helps too. I mean, if you learned you had a lost older brother and were born in the computer age, you wouldn't be curious?

If coincidence, they realized it after a few minutes of conversation. If the guy was on his porch, they probably had a brief exchange from the sidewalk and usually the first question answered by the missionaries is where they're from, that is, if they don't announce their port of origin in the first sentence as a way to get the conversation started. The guy would be curious about someone from his home town. So the narrative is pure fabricated Holland drama of the "wrong road" kind. Lemmie can give the details of how he changes stories to be more faith promoting.

He's even open about some of the fabrications "likely said a prayer" and the biker guy "wishing the gate hadn't restrained his dogs." Sure, he wants his dogs taken to the pound and put down and criminal charges since he was out there failing to restrain them -- this is Southern California. If he doesn't want people to come into his yard or believed his dogs would mall strangers in broad daylight he would put a lock on his gate.

On my mission I walked into gates and jumped fences with barking dogs of all kinds including Dobermans. There was a huge guard dog culture in some of the areas. I never said a single prayer before doing it, I just really like dogs and I know the odds are extremely low that if you walk in like you own the place, that the dog will actually bite an adult male. Dogs even without training instinctively know they aren't supposed to bite people and kind of know not to bite other dogs.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Madison54
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Madison54 »

Water Dog wrote:Do I believe "something" happened? Yes. Do I believe it happened in the children's fairy tale manner as described? No.

Holland gives himself away with the cheesy dialogue. Even if some missionary had been inspired to find his wayward brother, nobody talks like that. If this missionary played Dr. Dolittle and was led to that doorstep in such a high resolution way as described, Holland should be fired immediately, and this missionary called into the Q12 in his place.

Yes, the whole quoting as if he were a witness stuff was very cringe worthy to read.

Also, why add that he was renting a house? ("he one day was sitting on the porch of a rented home when he saw two LDS missionaries making their way up the street"). Was that to show that one doesn't do well if they're not paying their tithing? :lol:
_Gadianton
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Gadianton »

porch of a rented home


that was to show that the grieving family couldn't have done a records search to find him.

it's one of the things added by the narrator as the fish story passes around and grows.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

honorentheos wrote:His dogs react differently to a biological sibling


Some dogs react differently when you are inside the property. Ever heard of "dog that barks doesn't bite"?
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Elder Holland shares 'the missionary speech of all time'

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Of course this has to be an embellished story for the lord. Mormonism is patently false, and if god exists, he isn't leading anyone to Mormonism. Sure, it's possible some brothers were reunited and one of them happened to be a missionary. However, if god exists, he wasn't part of the equation. He wouldn't want his children to lose their retirement, 10% at a time, to a church that doesn't respect its adherents enough to fully disclose its finances.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
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