Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

zerinus wrote:Rubbish, nonsense. The KJV quotes comprise about 7% of the Book of Mormon. And they are not identical; there are variations. If the Book of Mormon was a fraud, why would Joseph Smith want to expose himself to that kind of criticism by merely copying lengthy passage from the KJV—when he could have just omitted them, and nobody would have noticed anything?


Joseph Smith was no scholar when he wrote the Book of Mormon. His understanding of the complexities of translation were limited. He was, infact, an ignorant farm boy. Cowdery probably new better but was a limited scholar in his own right. Joseph Smith was caught in his own web by incorporating whole portions of the KJV into the Book of Mormon but thought a few minor changes would set him apart. Not so. He took the warts in not knowing what he was doing. The ignorant Mormons of the day could have been easily fooled by the KJV Book of Mormon but scholars today are miles ahead of Joseph Smith.

The Book of Mormon is a fraud. I'm 100% sure of it.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

zerinus wrote:I think that I am smarter than them. LOL! I quoted you what God had said, not what man has said.


Actually, you quoted what Joseph Smith said who was pretending to speak for god. You sidestepped the "The" in effort to justify your own error. You do not represent the church properly if you fail to capitalize The in the name of the church. Period.

If you don't agree, take it up with the General Authorities. Next time you're at the pulpit be sure to tell the members that you are smarter then them.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

zerinus wrote: You have fallen for the lies of the devil against Mormonism.


Prove it. Tell me the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 and I'll concede and shut up.

Can you do that? Will you do that?
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

zerinus wrote:You are talking rubbish, nonsense. The Book of Mormon is the word of God, just as the Book of Abraham is the word of God.


No sir, the Facsimile No. 3 vignette in your Book of Abraham is not the word of Mormon god. It is the word of the Egyptian gods written down by the Egyptian priesthood according to their religious rites and ceremonies.

Your ignorance is astounding. Just sit down. You have nothing intelligent to add to this conversation. YOU, are a troll. I got that early on when you first came to the board. I'm tired of playing with you.
_zerinus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1858
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:45 pm

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _zerinus »

Shulem wrote:Joseph Smith was no scholar when he wrote the Book of Mormon. His understanding of the complexities of translation were limited. He was, infact, an ignorant farm boy. Cowdery probably new better but was a limited scholar in his own right. Joseph Smith was caught in his own web by incorporating whole portions of the KJV into the Book of Mormon but thought a few minor changes would set him apart. Not so. He took the warts in not knowing what he was doing. The ignorant Mormons of the day could have been easily fooled by the KJV Book of Mormon but scholars today are miles ahead of Joseph Smith.

The Book of Mormon is a fraud. I'm 100% sure of it.
Then you need to listen to the following devotional address given by Elder Tad R. Callister at BYU some months ago called: “The Book of Mormon: Man-Made or God-Given?”:

https://youtu.be/InVmvWA12qU
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

Joseph Smith appears to have believed that he actually possessed the literal handwriting and autographs of Abraham and other biblical Patriarchs on the papyri that he purchased from Michael Chandler in June 1835.


I would remove the word, "appears". There is no question at all that Joseph Smith claimed to believe it, the many testimonials from Joseph and others prove it conclusively.

Bear in mind, it's the apologists that like to use the word "appears" to help soften the case against them and keep themselves propped up with the idea they can still survive the evidence.

Just state the facts as they are. Be decisive.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

zerinus wrote:Then you need to listen to the following devotional address given by Elder Tad R. Callister at BYU some months ago called: “The Book of Mormon: Man-Made or God-Given?”


Tell me the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 and I'll concede and shut up.

Can you do that? Will you do that?
_zerinus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1858
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:45 pm

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _zerinus »

Shulem wrote:Actually, you quoted what Joseph Smith said who was pretending to speak for god. You sidestepped the "The" in effort to justify your own error. You do not represent the church properly if you fail to capitalize The in the name of the church. Period.

If you don't agree, take it up with the General Authorities. Next time you're at the pulpit be sure to tell the members that you are smarter then them.
Since I and the rest of the Church, including General Authorities, believe that the D&C is the word of God—and you don’t—that issue will not arise.
_zerinus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1858
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:45 pm

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _zerinus »

Shulem wrote:Prove it. Tell me the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 and I'll concede and shut up.

Can you do that? Will you do that?
I don’t need to know Egyptology to know that the book of Abraham is the word of God; any more than I need to know Hebrew to know that the Bible is the word of God.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

Post by _Shulem »

zerinus wrote:Since I and the rest of the Church, including General Authorities, believe that the D&C is the word of God—and you don’t—that issue will not arise.


Tell me the name of the king written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 and I'll concede and shut up.

Can you do that? Will you do that?
Post Reply