Shulem wrote:Mormons aren't concerned with facts or scientific certainty.
Religion is a matter of faith, not of "science". If you have invented a god for yourself called "scientific certainty," you are welcome to it; but it is a false god. It is nothing more than an idol. There is a real God, however, who can only be known by faith; and who can reveal "truths" that science cannot reveal.
You're putting the cart before the horse. I don't live by faith as you do! You have faith that the Book of Abraham is somehow true. Just faith, nothing more. Your god is your imaginary friend, the faith of your mind. You just remember, you walk by faith, not sight!
You are blind.
I don't live or walk by faith. I walk by sight and by facts that can be proven and measured. You tell me about a real god but you don't KNOW that. It's only your faith that there is a real god in whom you think governs your church. That is not established fact. It's only your faith and that is what you walk by.
Faith is dangerous. It is the first principle that enslaves mankind into the various cults and religions.
I have a question wrote:I thought you knew without a doubt?
Amounts to the same thing. I know without a doubt that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and power of God, and that it is true. The same applies to the Book of Abraham, no difference.
Shulem wrote:You're putting the cart before the horse. I don't live by faith as you do! You have faith that the Book of Abraham is somehow true. Just faith, nothing more. Your god is your imaginary friend, the faith of your mind. You just remember, you walk by faith, not sight!
You are blind.
I don't live or walk by faith. I walk by sight and by facts that can be proven and measured. You tell me about a real god but you don't KNOW that. It's only your faith that there is a real god in whom you think governs your church. That is not established fact. It's only your faith and that is what you walk by.
Faith is dangerous. It is the first principle that enslaves mankind into the various cults and religions.
You are wasting time. Nothing more to add. Have a nice day.
zerinus wrote:I trust that what Joseph Smith taught was true. If your "Egyptology" says that it isn't, then I mistrust your "Egyptology" rather than Joseph Smith. I don't believe that your "Egyptology" has advanced enough to be able to solve every mystery therein.
There you go again, denying science and Egyptology which has advanced to the point that reading and interpreting Facsimile No. 3 is simple child's play. There is nothing complicated about it. It is not Egyptian rocket science. The vignette is easily understood by modern Egyptology and completely misunderstood by Joseph Smith and falsely misrepresented by the LDS church.
Not every mystery need be understood to understand the basics of what is going on in Facsimile No. 3. It's really, a rather simple vignette in keeping with a general pattern as expressed in funerary literature and tomb inscriptions. It's the Egyptian religion -- spells, incantations, and praise to the gods of Egypt. Don't you understand that?!
zerinus wrote:You are talking nonsense. You know a little bit, and you think you know everything. "Science" proves nothing of the kind. There are many truths that cannot be known by "science," but by the revelations of God.You can knock your head against that wall forever; but it won't alter that fact.
It's you that are knocking your head against the wall because you know darn well that there isn't a king's name written in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 -- and neither can John Gee, Mormon Egyptologist read the name. Why? Because it doesn't exist. It's not there. Neither is the name Shulem.
Science and Egyptology can read the writing pretty easily. It's all right there. Unfortunately for you, you're stuck with Joseph Smith's garbage that he peddled on his people back in the days before modern Egyptology came alive and truth and knowledge was restored out of the earth through real revelation.
You deal with that as you continue to lie to yourself.
zerinus wrote:I trust that what Joseph Smith taught was true.
I thought you knew without a doubt?
He proclaims his pious trust but all he really has is his faith as he foams at the mouth and shouts against science and Egyptology. He is possessed with the spirit of cult religion and that takes a heavy toll on the mind -- the spirit of denial.
zerinus wrote:The "Egyptology" that you rely on so much is not as foolproof as you think it is. There is a better way of discovering truth that never goes wrong. "Egyptology" doesn't even come close.
You would have me believe that the beautiful goddess Isis in Facsimile No. 3 is really a man dressed up as the king of Egypt?
You would have me believe that the beautiful goddess Maat in Fascimile No. 3 is really a boy?
You would have me believe that the mighty god Anubis was just a slave according to the writing Joseph Smith read above him?
Mormon Egyptology according to Joseph Smith is nothing but perversion and makes a solid mockery of the ancient Egyptian religion that was dear to the heart of countless millions that once lived. The Mormon church is guilty of slandering the ancient Egyptians and spreading lies about another race and culture. For shame!
There are many truths that cannot be known by "science," but by the revelations of God.You can knock your head against that wall forever; but it won't alter that fact.
This is true, but irrelevant to the subject at hand. Science can and does know things, plenty of things that religion has backed down and now accepted from science, even though religion had it originally (and incorrectly) from God, or so they claim. We actually do have enough science of Egyptology to correctly translate Joseph Smith's papyri he owned and claimed he translated. He didn't translate it right however. Sure there are things science doesn't know, but this is one that it does know. Joseph Smith translated the papyri wrong. You are just pretending to be thick in order not to have to deal with it. I KNOW that's what you do, because I was once in your mindset, and it's what we all did. You fool no one here, other than the man in the mirror.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
Shulem wrote:There you go again, denying science and Egyptology which has advanced to the point that reading and interpreting Facsimile No. 3 is simple child's play. There is nothing complicated about it. It is not Egyptian rocket science. The vignette is easily understood by modern Egyptology and completely misunderstood by Joseph Smith and falsely misrepresented by the LDS church.
Not every mystery need be understood to understand the basics of what is going on in Facsimile No. 3. It's really, a rather simple vignette in keeping with a general pattern as expressed in funerary literature and tomb inscriptions. It's the Egyptian religion -- spells, incantations, and praise to the gods of Egypt. Don't you understand that?!
Philo Sofee wrote:This is true, but irrelevant to the subject at hand. Science can and does know things, plenty of things that religion has backed down and now accepted from science, even though religion had it originally (and incorrectly) from God, or so they claim.
That is called “changing the subject”. We are not dealing with “religion”. We are dealing with the prophetic and revelatory claims of Joseph Smith which often went against the “religious” beliefs, customs, and traditions of his day.
We actually do have enough science of Egyptology to correctly translate Joseph Smith's papyri he owned and claimed he translated.
I question that we do.
He didn't translate it right however. Sure there are things science doesn't know, but this is one that it does know.
Again, I question that. There were esoteric teachings which the symbols represented that were reserved for the “initiated,” and were not revealed to everyone. In other words, what you think you have discovered may not be all that is there.
Joseph Smith translated the papyri wrong.
So you like to think.
You are just pretending to be thick in order not to have to deal with it. I KNOW that's what you do, because I was once in your mindset, and it's what we all did. You fool no one here, other than the man in the mirror.
When you have no more answers left, resort to name calling, and lose any remaining credibility left. That is okay with me. Too bad you don’t know what a fool you are making of yourself round here.