Can the LDS Church successfully loosen its grip?

[_RockSlider]

A few years ago, I was discussing this with a friend who left the church at roughly the time I did. We thought the church had two choices: open up at least somewhat, or circle the wagons. Since then, we've both concluded that the church is trying to do both at the same time. On the one hand, they are trying to open up a little about the thornier bits of church history and doctrine, though personally I think they have engaged in too much spin that has been, on occasion, quite misleading. On the other hand, there seems to be a determined effort to narrow the field of acceptable behavior and thought in the church. It's harder, for example, to support the rights of same-sex couples without bumping up against the boundaries of acceptable church behavior.

Where will it end? I don't know. I think the main conclusion is that the church has tried to reassert control over a narrative they were losing. And if it takes some loosening and tightening at the same time to regain control, so be it.

It's a major balancing act between:

1. not losing the baby boomer generation by going left (tithing dollars are all here for the time being).
2. not losing the millennials/newer generations by not providing a left.

It will remain more old school orthodox for now, constantly moving more nuanced over time as the baby boomers die off.

[_mentalgymnast]

So to stem the tide, can the LDS Church take that hard left turn and soften its teachings and widen its net? or is it too rutted in its old ways?

I wouldn't expect the church to change from the accepted doctrines and practices that are in place today. Especially the core teachings of Christ's atonement, baptism, repentance, sin, obedience to commandments, nature and being of God, marriage between a man and a woman, temple ordinances, families are forever doctrine, pre-mortal and post-mortal life teachings, and resurrection of mankind. I'm sure there are others, but that's a start.

So, rutted in its old ways? Yes. But again, I don't think I would expect anything else. Otherwise, how would you be able to say it's Christ's church? He's not going to go changing everything just because some folks want to change it up to meet their expectations and/or understanding of doctrine, etc.

Regards,
MG

[_RockSlider]

mentalgymnast,

Having taken out my endowments in 1980 and being an ordinance worker twice a week for over eight years the first thing I had to lay upon the shelf was the constant changing of the endowment. The days when 'doctrine' was BRM's Mormon Doctrine. The days of Eternal Progression seem to be gone. The definition of Exaltation in the highest kingdom of the Celestial (7th heaven) seem long gone. The days of the less valiant in the pre-mortal ending up in Ethiopia are long past (thankfully). I not sure there is one thing on your list that has not changed already. What is to keep it from changing more? Well that would not be the likes of Bushman (we need a new narrative) or Given's (its whatever you want it to be).

The movement towards acceptance of a non-historical Book of Mormon will continue. The movement away from orthodoxy to orthopraxy will continue.

[_mentalgymnast]

mentalgymnast,

I not sure there is one thing on your list that has not changed already.

I really don't think they have changed in any way that impacts the efficacy and/or meaning of the doctrines. They aren't going anywhere.

But I respect the fact that you believe that the changes in the endowment are meaningful in the overall scheme of things as far as what the endowment represents, etc.

I don't believe that to be the case.

Again, the things I've listed are here to stay.

Although I would agree with those that maintain that cultural/operational practices and/or policies have and will continue to evolve. That can be shown to have happened here and there throughout the church's history.

Regards,
MG

[_moksha]

By the time a Millenial will take over the Church Presidency a hundred years from now, Church policy might mirror the late 1990's attitudes.

[_DrW]

Church leadership does need to do loosen things up a bit. Tightening the grip just results in more members being squeezed out.

[_bcuzbcuz]

I would like to see the LDS Church become more accepting. I think that as long as the Quorum of the 12 consists of elderly white men, it is going to be difficult to see the Church policies pass that will allow this to happen. I think that if the Church broadens its priesthood leadership to include more younger members, and minorities, and that includes women, then the Church has a chance to evolve in a more positive direction.

So far God hasn't displayed any colour blindness. The only candidates he can find to fill the top positions are white. Even when young(er) candidates names are put forward they all end up being roughly the same age (old) before having any say in matters. White and old. Not much room for new thinking.

[_candygal]

mentalgymnast,

Having taken out my endowments in 1980 and being an ordinance worker twice a week for over eight years the first thing I had to lay upon the shelf was the constant changing of the endowment. The days when 'doctrine' was Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine. The days of Eternal Progression seem to be gone. The definition of Exaltation in the highest kingdom of the Celestial (7th heaven) seem long gone. The days of the less valiant in the pre-mortal ending up in Ethiopia are long past (thankfully). I not sure there is one thing on your list that has not changed already. What is to keep it from changing more? Well that would not be the likes of Bushman (we need a new narrative) or Given's (its whatever you want it to be).

The movement towards acceptance of a non-historical Book of Mormon will continue. The movement away from orthodoxy to orthopraxy will continue.

Question Rockslider...in your TBM days..in your early Temple days..even the first time..did you ever wonder that God would require secret signs, names and passwords?? This question if for all of you. I was trying to prepare for the Temple when my testimony fell apart. I was sealed to family at age 9...but that is all I really know about the actual Temple experience I know some women who at the time of the endowments wanting to just run...and could not. To me now..it sounds like a ritual for a club. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

No loosening anytime soon. The Salt Lake City Mormons don't have the same powers of discernment as the Community of Christ.

I agree with this. I think that Community of Christ has a much better perspective from what I have observed.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

mentalgymnast,

Having taken out my endowments in 1980 and being an ordinance worker twice a week for over eight years the first thing I had to lay upon the shelf was the constant changing of the endowment. The days when 'doctrine' was Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine. The days of Eternal Progression seem to be gone. The definition of Exaltation in the highest kingdom of the Celestial (7th heaven) seem long gone. The days of the less valiant in the pre-mortal ending up in Ethiopia are long past (thankfully). I not sure there is one thing on your list that has not changed already. What is to keep it from changing more? Well that would not be the likes of Bushman (we need a new narrative) or Given's (its whatever you want it to be).

The movement towards acceptance of a non-historical Book of Mormon will continue. The movement away from orthodoxy to orthopraxy will continue.

Question Rockslider...in your TBM days..in your early Temple days..even the first time..did you ever wonder that God would require secret signs, names and passwords?? This question if for all of you. I was trying to prepare for the Temple when my testimony fell apart. I was sealed to family at age 9...but that is all I really know about the actual Temple experience I know some women who at the time of the endowments wanting to just run...and could not. To me now..it sounds like a ritual for a club. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

No offense at all. What seemed to be a huge incongruence for me was that in the Book of Mormon, they talk about secret societies and evil people using signs, handshakes, etc. And then, you go to the temple and there are all kinds of tokens, etc.