Joseph the King in Mormon Theology

[_zerinus]

I agree that it would be speculative from a doctrinal standpoint, and I'm not trying to establish doctrine or anything along those lines. I'm approaching the subject from a historical perspective, and I think I'm on pretty solid ground in that arena.

I am not too sure about that either. I see a lot more conjecture speculation in all of this than either doctrine or history.

[_Fence Sitter]

Show of hands, who here believes the Smith lineage contains any Middle Eastern DNA?

Another easily disproved claim of something Joseph Smith just made up.

[_Benjamin Seeker]

I agree that it would be speculative from a doctrinal standpoint, and I'm not trying to establish doctrine or anything along those lines. I'm approaching the subject from a historical perspective, and I think I'm on pretty solid ground in that arena.

I am not too sure about that either. I see a lot more conjecture speculation in all of this than either doctrine or history.

You'll have to clarify for me. Do you have a problem with either of the two main prophecies attributed to Joseph Smith, namely, a David in the last days from the lineage of King David would be a King of Israel OR that Joseph Smith's son David would be a King of Israel and President if the church? Or do you just think it's conjecture equating the David, a King of Israel in the last days, from the first prophecy with the David, a King of Israel in the last days, from the second prophecy?

[_Benjamin Seeker]

Another easily disproved claim of something Joseph Smith just made up.

Frankly, that's my underlying assumption with all of this.

[_zerinus]

You'll have to clarify for me. Do you have a problem with either of the two main prophecies attributed to Joseph Smith, namely, a David in the last days from the lineage of King David would be a King of Israel OR that Joseph Smith's son David would be a King of Israel and President if the church? Or do you just think it's conjecture equating the David, a King of Israel in the last days, from the first prophecy with the David, a King of Israel in the last days, from the second prophecy?

The problem begins with the word “attributed”.

[_Benjamin Seeker]

You'll have to clarify for me. Do you have a problem with either of the two main prophecies attributed to Joseph Smith, namely, a David in the last days from the lineage of King David would be a King of Israel OR that Joseph Smith's son David would be a King of Israel and President if the church? Or do you just think it's conjecture equating the David, a King of Israel in the last days, from the first prophecy with the David, a King of Israel in the last days, from the second prophecy?

The problem begins with the word “attributed”.

There you go. You don't believe Joseph Smith said one or the other. That's fine. I believe both of the quotes are reported by friendly sources though I know apologists shy away from the second one because it didn't pan out. If you're not too afraid, you could look into them yourself!

[_Benjamin Seeker]

Here is an in depth discussion of the first quote in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism published by BYU: http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/David,_Pro ... _Last_Days

You'll find this first quote in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, a trusted Mormon source compiled by one of the Joseph F. Smiths.

The second quote was published in D. Michael Quinn's The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, p. 644. I'll look it up tomorrow morning and get the exact person/date of the source of the quote. Also, If you search Grindael's thread, you'll see he cites Brigham young's report of hearing something similar from Joseph Smith.

[_zerinus]

There you go. You don't believe Joseph Smith said one or the other. That's fine. I believe both of the quotes are reported by friendly sources though I know apologists shy away from the second one because it didn't pan out. If you're not too afraid, you could look into them yourself!

I trust Joseph Smith’s judgement more.

[_zerinus]

Here is an in depth discussion of the first quote in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism published by BYU: http://eom.BYU.edu/index.php/David,_Pro ... _Last_Days

You'll find this first quote in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, a trusted Mormon source compiled by one of the Joseph F. Smiths.

The second quote was published in D. Michael Quinn's The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, p. 644. I'll look it up tomorrow morning and get the exact person/date of the source of the quote. Also, If you search Grindael's thread, you'll see he cites Brigham young's report of hearing something similar from Joseph Smith.

I looked at that article, and find that there is still too much uncertainty an lack of clarity involved. The most we can conclude from that is that Joseph Smith believed that God would raise up a future king over Israel of the loins of David by the name of David. Well, so what? That proves what?

[_moksha]

And where there are ambiguities in that revealed scripture, the best solution is to suspend judgment until more truth is revealed, rather than engage in speculation.

Let's not think any more than we need to, right? Wish sometimes we could say stop the speculating when we hear some of the stuff at General Conference. Well, I guess we can say that to the television screen.