The Psychology of the Believers Mind

[_Craig Paxton]

I've always been fascinated, well at least since I lost my own beliefs, in the ability of knowledgeable internet Mormon's to maintain a belief in the truth claims of the Mormon Church. These are the informed latter day saints who know just as much on the problems within these claims as I do and yet are able to maintain belief in these same claims. How does someone maintain belief in something so obviously false to everyone else? For me the evidence both in support of non belief and against the truth claims of Mormonism is over whelming in their support of forming a the logical conclusion that it was all just a made up, man made religion created by Joseph Smith. But it's even more than that. It's the lack of any supporting evidence in virtually every Mormon claim where one would expect to find evidence such as the Book of Mormon civilization claims...of the non existing Nephite and Lamanite civilization claims and its in the actual evidence that does exist, such as the Book of Abraham fraudulent translation claims that undermines and exposes Mormonism as a complete and utter fraud.

I look to the example of Rome. I can't imagine that any of these believers would maintain a belief in a Roman civilization that did not have physical evidence to support its existence and yet this is exactly what they are doing with their belief in the fictional Nephite and Lamanite civilizations. It's mind boggling to me.

Why is it so blatantly obvious for me to conclude that Mormonism is not what it claims to be and so easy for internet Mormon's to maintain belief. What am I missing? I just don't get it. Is there something in their DNA that makes them more susceptible to belief than those who can see through the Mormon BS? I just don't get it.

[_deacon blues]

I think it's 50% DNA and 45% culture. That leaves 5% for anything else you want to put in there, like appeal to pride, laziness, etc. No . . make that 50% culture and 45% DNA.

But I could be wrong.

[_Maksutov]

I don't believe it's a thinking thing, it's a feeling and identity thing. Ideas and facts are not the fabric of the Mormon life, relationships are. Kind of like many other religions and groups.

[_Stem]

I don't believe it's a thinking thing, it's a feeling and identity thing. Ideas and facts are not the fabric of the Mormon life, relationships are. Kind of like many other religions and groups.

I think this is correct. One can realize the weakness of the BoMs claims and yet not really let it affect him/her because the practice of religion, the daily walking through the Mormon life, works. It makes them happy and satisfied.

The additional element of this is, some of us accept that the Book of Mormon is not a historical book and yet remain affiliated. We may not really see much use for scripture itself, other than a few quotable passages here or there, and also accept that "scripture" is just a word to describe old writings, or writings people consider sacred. But in some measure, or most measures, they are no more useful, inspirational or helpful than many writings. What can I say? one reason I remain, I think, it because I realize I simply don't know hardly anything with certainty.

[_bcuzbcuz]

I don't believe it's a thinking thing, it's a feeling and identity thing. Ideas and facts are not the fabric of the Mormon life, relationships are. Kind of like many other religions and groups.

With my 20/20 hindsight, my former beliefs in Mormonism are bordering on psychosis, which by definition, is an impaired relationship with reality.

I maintained a psychotic balance by partitioning information into separate units in my thinking. I had various methods that blocked a reasoned analysis from comparing facts to fiction.

Even my definition of fiction partitioned fables and stories into one category while at the same time refusing to classify the fiction of the Book of Mormon or the fiction of the Book of Abraham as made up s*** and right out lies.

Looking back, I did mental twists and turns and mental gymnastics that allowed me to entertain two diametrically opposed facts simultaneously. It was like standing in a doorway with one hand outside, feeling the rain, and saying “It is raining” while at the same time raising my hand inside the house and saying “It isn’t raining” and believing I was defining the same reality.

Like you say, facts don’t play into it.

[_Craig Paxton]

I don't believe it's a thinking thing, it's a feeling and identity thing. Ideas and facts are not the fabric of the Mormon life, relationships are. Kind of like many other religions and groups.

With my 20/20 hindsight, my former beliefs in Mormonism are bordering on psychosis, which by definition, is an impaired relationship with reality.

I maintained a psychotic balance by partitioning information into separate units in my thinking. I had various methods that blocked a reasoned analysis from comparing facts to fiction.

Even my definition of fiction partitioned fables and stories into one category while at the same time refusing to classify the fiction of the Book of Mormon or the fiction of the Book of Abraham as made up s*** and right out lies.

Looking back, I did mental twists and turns and mental gymnastics that allowed me to entertain two diametrically opposed facts simultaneously. It was like standing in a doorway with one hand outside, feeling the rain, and saying “It is raining” while at the same time raising my hand inside the house and saying “It isn’t raining” and believing I was defining the same reality.

Like you say, facts don’t play into it.

Yes this describes my experience as well...

[_Res Ipsa]

I've always been fascinated, well at least since I lost my own beliefs, in the ability of knowledgeable internet Mormon's to maintain a belief in the truth claims of the Mormon Church. These are the informed latter day saints who know just as much on the problems within these claims as I do and yet are able to maintain belief in these same claims. How does someone maintain belief in something so obviously false to everyone else? For me the evidence both in support of non belief and against the truth claims of Mormonism is over whelming in their support of forming a the logical conclusion that it was all just a made up, man made religion created by Joseph Smith. But it's even more than that. It's the lack of any supporting evidence in virtually every Mormon claim where one would expect to find evidence such as the Book of Mormon civilization claims...of the non existing Nephite and Lamanite civilization claims and its in the actual evidence that does exist, such as the Book of Abraham fraudulent translation claims that undermines and exposes Mormonism as a complete and utter fraud.

I look to the example of Rome. I can't imagine that any of these believers would maintain a belief in a Roman civilization that did not have physical evidence to support its existence and yet this is exactly what they are doing with their belief in the fictional Nephite and Lamanite civilizations. It's mind boggling to me.

Why is it so blatantly obvious for me to conclude that Mormonism is not what it claims to be and so easy for internet Mormon's to maintain belief. What am I missing? I just don't get it. Is there something in their DNA that makes them more susceptible to belief than those who can see through the Mormon BS? I just don't get it.

I think part of what you might be missing is the way that human brains typically function. There's been a fair amount of research done on how people with deep seated opinions or beliefs react to facts that challenge their beliefs. Faithful LDS folks behave in a manner consistent with that research. The brain has a powerful set of cognitive biases built in, and it's very hard to ignore those.

[_candygal]

So much of maintaining any relationship with Mormonism..has everything to do with the fear that is instilled when you don't. Though I have the same questions as the OP..my focus in connecting with Md@d was because I could not understand the intelligent LDS women that would let so many things relating to them..take back seat.

But hey...the fear is real. The church and doctrines did a good job with this emotion.

[_Craig Paxton]

I've always been fascinated, well at least since I lost my own beliefs, in the ability of knowledgeable internet Mormon's to maintain a belief in the truth claims of the Mormon Church. These are the informed latter day saints who know just as much on the problems within these claims as I do and yet are able to maintain belief in these same claims. How does someone maintain belief in something so obviously false to everyone else? For me the evidence both in support of non belief and against the truth claims of Mormonism is over whelming in their support of forming a the logical conclusion that it was all just a made up, man made religion created by Joseph Smith. But it's even more than that. It's the lack of any supporting evidence in virtually every Mormon claim where one would expect to find evidence such as the Book of Mormon civilization claims...of the non existing Nephite and Lamanite civilization claims and its in the actual evidence that does exist, such as the Book of Abraham fraudulent translation claims that undermines and exposes Mormonism as a complete and utter fraud.

I look to the example of Rome. I can't imagine that any of these believers would maintain a belief in a Roman civilization that did not have physical evidence to support its existence and yet this is exactly what they are doing with their belief in the fictional Nephite and Lamanite civilizations. It's mind boggling to me.

Why is it so blatantly obvious for me to conclude that Mormonism is not what it claims to be and so easy for internet Mormon's to maintain belief. What am I missing? I just don't get it. Is there something in their DNA that makes them more susceptible to belief than those who can see through the Mormon ____? I just don't get it.

I think part of what you might be missing is the way that human brains typically function. There's been a fair amount of research done on how people with deep seated opinions or beliefs react to facts that challenge their beliefs. Faithful LDS folks behave in a manner consistent with that research. The brain has a powerful set of cognitive biases built in, and it's very hard to ignore those.

Yes I'm aware of the backfire effect built into our bias'. I' guess what I'd like to understand is why it is so strong some believer's that they remain a believer and yet allows someone like me to accept the pieces placed before me and conclude that the church was built on a fraud.

[_Res Ipsa]

Yes I'm aware of the backfire effect built into our bias'. I' guess what I'd like to understand is why it is so strong some believer's that they remain a believer and yet allows someone like me to accept the pieces placed before me and conclude that the church was built on a fraud.

I doubt there's any particular thing you can point to. I'm pretty convinced that my "deconversion" was contingent upon lots of different events over which I had little to no control. Change certain experiences in my life, and I may very well be LDS today. If there is some difference in brains, I wouldn't be surprised if it was on the order of my wife loves eggplant and I can't stand it.

I suspect that trying to find some significant difference between you and a believing LDS person that explains the difference will be fruitless and frustrating.