Water Dog wrote:You should follow up with the guy on this.
He's still a professor at BYU. I will ask him the next time I run into him. I wanted to bring the subject up when I attending his daughter wedding reception...but didn't think the setting appropriate.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
Water Dog wrote:You should follow up with the guy on this.
He's still a professor at BYU. I will ask him the next time I run into him. I wanted to bring the subject up when I attending his daughter wedding reception...but didn't think the setting appropriate.
Craig,
I have heard that quote before, so it must have been published somewhere besides JSPP.
I'll see if I can find it.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
consiglieri wrote:I will go so far as to call Elder Ballard a liar.
There comes a point where I am not willing to give any benefit of the doubt to church leaders on certain issues.
This is one of them.
Either a liar or he really thinks people are stupid.
I think the stupid idea works. I'm sure there's been tons of times both men told tales to groups of members and were never called on it. I think it might go that they think the members typically aren't going to look into it. It makes their jobs pretty easy to just say, Trust us...we know what we're saying and no one seems to care enough to look into it.
Water Dog wrote:You should follow up with the guy on this.
He's still a professor at BYU. I will ask him the next time I run into him. I wanted to bring the subject up when I attending his daughter wedding reception...but didn't think the setting appropriate.
Fence Sitter wrote:Craig,
I have heard that quote before, so it must have been published somewhere besides JSPP.
I'll see if I can find it.
maybe California kid knows. he posted this some years back when you told the story:
The "Documents" portion of the Joseph Smith Papers has only gotten up to 1840. The sermon in question was delivered in 1841. Keep watching the JSP website; they'll get to it eventually. Here's the citation you're looking for, FYI:
Joseph Smith discourse at Nauvoo on the Last Sunday of April 1841, Reverend Julius A. Reed Collection, box 2, folder 15, Iowa State Historical Society, Iowa City, Iowa.
RockSlider wrote:I would not be surprised if a committee of those mentioned who categorized the 4k questions were not heavily involved in 'speech writing' for the two of them.
Ah ha! So it is the so-called "committee" which was responsible for the excessive hubris rather than the Elders. We've all read about the late night antics of committees. Perhaps it had gotten high on the gospel or something.
consiglieri wrote:I will go so far as to call Elder Ballard a liar.
There comes a point where I am not willing to give any benefit of the doubt to church leaders on certain issues.
This is one of them.
Either a liar or he really thinks people are stupid.
There are The Stupid and The Theostupid. The Stupid are just that way no matter what. The Theostupid are willing to act like The Stupid in order to appease Theo. And Theo just happens to always get traced back to a bunch of old interrelated dudes in suits in SLC.
mentalgymnast wrote:I wouldn't doubt that there are things that are kept privy among the brethren.
...can someone please just punch MG in the face already? You'd being doing the lad a favor.
I thnk MG meant to write 'kept in the brethren's privy'.
It's how they dispose of the more embarrassing pages that are found amongst the Joseph Smith Papers. After all, to what more holy use could such relics be put?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Craig Paxton wrote:He continued, "I've read many of these papers and I assure you that they are not going to hold anything back, in fact I have read one of Joseph's person diary entries where he writes of his love for Whiskey by writing 'Whiskey, Whiskey, Whiskey, what will I ever do without my whiskey' and this is going to soon be released as well...so you see we're holding nothing back."
Its been nearly a decade since I sat down with my Joseph Smith Papers Project friend. In the intervening years I have gone to the JSPP sight on multiple occasions and used their words search feature by entering "whiskey". While the word whiskey does pop up in multiple searches...the one that my friend described is no where to be found...I wonder why and who vetoed its inclusion in the papers release. I trust my friend, he had no reason to make up such a story so I believe that the church is hiding this particular paper from all of us for their own purposes...to maintain the official whitewashed image of their beloved Joseph Smith.
Good God. They just can't help themselves. It moves me to profanities.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
