BYU faculty and the Book of Mormon

[_Jersey Girl]

MG, I tried to fix the formatting, but I’m not seeing whatever the mistake is. Can you see what I need to change?

Res Ipsa, re: formatting, in your first quote bracket, the quotation marks around mentalgymnast are not standard. Replace them with your standard ones, once the quote is in the MD composition box, or else remove his name and just use

That's it. I can't even perform simple functions any more, like seeing.

[_Res Ipsa]

MG, I tried to fix the formatting, but I’m not seeing whatever the mistake is. Can you see what I need to change?

Res Ipsa, re: formatting, in your first quote bracket, the quotation marks around mentalgymnast are not standard. Replace them with your standard ones, once the quote is in the MD composition box, or else remove his name and just use

Thanks, Lemmie. My phone keyboard uses those nonstandard quotes. Sigh. Technology.

[_mentalgymnast]

MG, I tried to fix the formatting, but I’m not seeing whatever the mistake is. Can you see what I need to change?

It looks OK now.

Regards,
MG

[_bcuzbcuz]

You're right. I can't prove that the plates were used in the translation process. I suppose I ought to say...to clarify...that I can't see any reason why they couldn't have been used during the translation process. The fact that they weren't sitting right next to Joseph the whole time translation was taking place needn't be a deal breaker as far as the plates being used as the and/or a resource during that process.

Along with, apparently, text from the KJV Bible and other sources that were available to the 'translation group/committee'...including Joseph Smith.

Regards,
MG

Your story (or the one you now buy into) of Joseph Smith Jr., translating words that couldn’t be seen, except by him, is more MaGical than the one I accepted when I was baptized. It is more MaGical than the one I believed in when I first was given the priesthood. Your story is more MaGical than the one I believed when I went on my mission. Your story of Joseph Smith ”translating” from plates that he did have in front of himself, is not the story I believed when I gave the lessons to investigators. They did not get baptized because I had told them a story about Joseph Smith putting his head into a deep hat and reading from a brown stone. Your story is not even the MaGical story that I accepted when I was ordained a 70.

Your MaGical story was hidden. Your MaGical story was only revealed after the invention of the internet.

I don’t know how old you are, nor do I know when you first heard the story of the translation of the gold plates into the Book of Mormon. Would I be wrong in assuming that you grew up with the story being that Joseph Smith sat at a table, with the golden plates in front of him and a blanket separating him from his scribe?

Why did your belief change?

[_mentalgymnast]

I don’t know how old you are, nor do I know when you first heard the story of the translation of the gold plates into the Book of Mormon. Would I be wrong in assuming that you grew up with the story being that Joseph Smith sat at a table, with the golden plates in front of him and a blanket separating him from his scribe?

Why did your belief change?

I've been around the block more than a few times age wise.

Although you wouldn't know it by the silly and/or nonsensical gibberish (word used as recently as today) I spout off around here...just kidding. Or not, right?

Anyway, I think it was a long while back, although I can't really pinpoint it, when I learned about the rock in the hat mode of translation. I've mentioned before on this board that I grew up in a home (sixties and seventies) with Sunstone and Dialogue. I can't help but think I must have come across articles/pictures having to do with translation methods, etc.

I'd guess it was long before any of the official organs of the church published on the matter. Ensign, etc.

But I do remember seeing the traditional depictions of the translation.

Regards,
MG

[_Chap]

I do remember seeing the traditional depictions of the translation.

Ah yes. You'd certainly remember that. Because, like, that is the way it was universally depicted in the illustrations in all relevant church sources.

I think it was a long while back, although I can't really pinpoint it, when I learned about the rock in the hat mode of translation.

No, I suspected that you wouldn't be able to pinpoint that. Except, of course, that you 'think it was a long while back'. Or you think you remember thinking that ...

[_mentalgymnast]

...you 'think it was a long while back'...

Over forty-fifty years ago.

Yeah, that's back there a ways.

I guess I'm one of the old fogies here.

Regards,
MG

[_Fence Sitter]

Just a reminder regarding the makeup of the 11 witnesses for lurkers who may not know or have forgotten.

6 were from the Whitmer family or related to the Whitmer family. Five brothers and a brother-in-law (Hiram Page).
4 were from the Smith family or related to the Smith family. Cowdery was a cousin of the Smith family, and Martin Harris - the least reliable of all of them.

So when you hear the number 11 being touted as if it were an impossibly large number of people to fool or hold together in a conspiracy, what you are really looking at are two families and a wacky friend who are tied into the story by relationships, cultural status, finances and the reputation of their own family name.

"But they never denied their testimony"

Well....duh.

[_Themis]

And so on...

You're right. I can't prove that the plates were used in the translation process. I suppose I ought to say...to clarify...that I can't see any reason why they couldn't have been used during the translation process. The fact that they weren't sitting right next to Joseph the whole time translation was taking place needn't be a deal breaker as far as the plates being used as the and/or a resource during that process.

Along with, apparently, text from the KJV Bible and other sources that were available to the 'translation group/committee'...including Joseph Smith.

Regards,
MG

LOL So now you have moved to he could have used the plates to translate. I guess that is about as much as we can expect you to admit that the plates were not essential to the translation. You still ignore the problem of why God didn't leave the plates for all to see. I doubt most believing members would suggest having more accurate knowledge diminishes our freedom to choose. All the choices are still there MG, and our ability to choose has not lessened. The only difference is now one knows the best choices for the best results we are seeking.

[_Chap]

I guess I'm one of the old fogies here.

You are insulting a lot of clear-thinking and intellectually honest old fogies there.