BYU faculty and the Book of Mormon

[_karl61]

If the church has been transparent in history why did Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig Olster simply dismiss the rock in the hat version in the year 2000.

http://emp.byui.edu/satterfieldb/Rel121 ... 20BofM.pdf

"Thus, everything we have in the Book of Mormon, according to Mr. Whitmer, was translated by placing the chocolate stone in a hat into which Joseph would bury his head as to close out the light. While doing so he could see 'an oblong piece of parchment, on which the hieroglyphics would appear,' and below the ancient writing, the translation would would be given in English. Joseph would then read this to Oliver Cowdery, who in turn would write it. If he did so correctly, the characters and the interpretation would disappear and be replaced by other characters with their interpretation".

"Such an explanation is, in our judgement, simply fiction created for the purpose of demeaning Joseph Smith to undermine the validity of the revelations he received after translating the Book of Mormon. We invite the read to consider the following"

They then go into discrediting Whitmer. This is about 3/4 down the page.

And why would the rock in the hat translation "undermine the validity of the revelations he received after translating the Book of Mormon."

[_deacon blues]

You bring up an important point. Are J.F. McConkie and Craig Ostler still around to answer it, or have they gone the way of all flesh? It looks like McConkie died in 2013. Ostler is about 63 so he will be around for a while. Would he be willing to answer for the insulting way the article deals with David Whitmer?

[_Cylon]

You bring up an important point. Are J.F. McConkie and Craig Ostler still around to answer it, or have they gone the way of all flesh?

Craig Ostler is fairly young and still teaching at BYU: https://rsc.byu.edu/authors/ostler-craig-james

Joseph Fielding McConkie died in 2013 at the age of 72.

[_deacon blues]

I’m reminded of the “Randy Bott affair”. Bott was a BYU prof. who made the mistake of explaining to a reporter the “old” official reason why black men couldn’t hold the priesthood a few years ago. Considering that seer stones are less offensive than racial prejudice, Prof. Ostler probably won’t get in any trouble. Overall, it’s just another example of the academic standards of a religious department that functions as lap dogs for GA’s of the LDS Church.

One more reason not to pay tithing or shop are Deseret Book.

[_karl61]

Further on in the page:

"finally, the testimony of David Whitmer simply does not accord with the divine pattern. If Joseph Smith translated everything that is now in the Book of Mormon without using the gold plates, we are left to wonder why the plates were necessary in the first place. It will be remembered that possession of the plates placed the Smith family in considerable danger, causing them a host of difficulties. If the plates were not part of the translation process, this would not have been the case. It also leaves wondering why the Lord directed the writers of the Book of Mormon to make a duplicate record of the plates of Lehi. This provision which compensated for the loss of the 116 pages would have served no purpose either. Further, we would be left to wonder why it was necessary for Moroni to instruct Joseph each year for four years before he was entrusted with the plates. We would also wonder why it was so important for Moroni to show the plates to the three witnesses, including David Whitmer. Why all this flap and fuss if the Prophet didn't really have the plates and if they were not used in the translation? What David Whitmer is asking us to believe is that the Lord had Moroni seal up the plates and the means by which they were to be translated hundreds of years before they would come into Joseph Smith's possession and then decide to have the Prophet use a seer stone found while digging a well so that none of these things would be necessary at all. Is this, we would ask, really a credible explanation of the way the heavens operated."

So the son of Apostle Bruce R McConkie, Joseph Fielding McConkie, who was almost 60 year old, and a Professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU is arguing the rock in the hat translation process doesn't make sense at all. Was the LDS church being transparent about the true translation process?

[_Craig Paxton]

If the church has been transparent in history why did Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig Olster simply dismiss the rock in the hat version in the year 2000.

http://emp.byui.edu/satterfieldb/Rel121 ... 20BofM.pdf

"Thus, everything we have in the Book of Mormon, according to Mr. Whitmer, was translated by placing the chocolate stone in a hat into which Joseph would bury his head as to close out the light. While doing so he could see 'an oblong piece of parchment, on which the hieroglyphics would appear,' and below the ancient writing, the translation would would be given in English. Joseph would then read this to Oliver Cowdery, who in turn would write it. If he did so correctly, the characters and the interpretation would disappear and be replaced by other characters with their interpretation".

"Such an explanation is, in our judgement, simply fiction created for the purpose of demeaning Joseph Smith to undermine the validity of the revelations he received after translating the Book of Mormon. We invite the read to consider the following"

They then go into discrediting Whitmer. This is about 3/4 down the page.

And why would the rock in the hat translation "undermine the validity of the revelations he received after translating the Book of Mormon."

The church has hid nothing, These men obviously haven't been reading the Ensign. This matter was fully discussed at length in a 1 mm x 1 mm article printed in disappearing ink in the March issue of the 1970 Ensign. All they had to do was hold the magazine up to a mirror, while shining a blue colored flash light through the page, while holding the magazine sideways and sticking their middle finger up their nose at the exact stroke of midnight, during a full moon, when the the outside temperature is a crisp 43 degrees. Geez, I'm so sick and tired of all of you apostates claiming that the church has been hiding this information when its been there all along for you lazy bastards to read.

[_Philo Sofee]

Joseph Fielding McConkie
"finally, the testimony of David Whitmer simply does not accord with the divine pattern.

What frickin divine pattern? There has never been consistency in *any* scripture for much of *anything* and he imagines there is a divine pattern in arbitrary inconsistency?! Is the pattern he had in mind the whitewashed, smoothed over, and rewritten LDS version?

[_mentalgymnast]

If Joseph Smith translated everything that is now in the Book of Mormon without using the gold plates, we are left to wonder why the plates were necessary in the first place. It will be remembered that possession of the plates placed the Smith family in considerable danger, causing them a host of difficulties. If the plates were not part of the translation process, this would not have been the case. It also leaves wondering why the Lord directed the writers of the Book of Mormon to make a duplicate record of the plates of Lehi. This provision which compensated for the loss of the 116 pages would have served no purpose either. Further, we would be left to wonder why it was necessary for Moroni to instruct Joseph each year for four years before he was entrusted with the plates. We would also wonder why it was so important for Moroni to show the plates to the three witnesses, including David Whitmer. Why all this flap and fuss if the Prophet didn't really have the plates and if they were not used in the translation? What David Whitmer is asking us to believe is that the Lord had Moroni seal up the plates and the means by which they were to be translated hundreds of years before they would come into Joseph Smith's possession and then decide to have the Prophet use a seer stone found while digging a well so that none of these things would be necessary at all. Is this, we would ask, really a credible explanation of the way the heavens operated."

I don't see anything here that would discount the need and/or purpose for the plates.

Regards,
MG

[_karl61]

If Joseph Smith translated everything that is now in the Book of Mormon without using the gold plates, we are left to wonder why the plates were necessary in the first place. It will be remembered that possession of the plates placed the Smith family in considerable danger, causing them a host of difficulties. If the plates were not part of the translation process, this would not have been the case. It also leaves wondering why the Lord directed the writers of the Book of Mormon to make a duplicate record of the plates of Lehi. This provision which compensated for the loss of the 116 pages would have served no purpose either. Further, we would be left to wonder why it was necessary for Moroni to instruct Joseph each year for four years before he was entrusted with the plates. We would also wonder why it was so important for Moroni to show the plates to the three witnesses, including David Whitmer. Why all this flap and fuss if the Prophet didn't really have the plates and if they were not used in the translation? What David Whitmer is asking us to believe is that the Lord had Moroni seal up the plates and the means by which they were to be translated hundreds of years before they would come into Joseph Smith's possession and then decide to have the Prophet use a seer stone found while digging a well so that none of these things would be necessary at all. Is this, we would ask, really a credible explanation of the way the heavens operated."

I don't see anything here that would discount the need and/or purpose for the plates.

Regards,
MG

I didn't write that. It's a quote from an article from two BYU Professors. That's their thoughts on why the rock in the hat translation process doesn't make sense. Did you read the article?

[_Choyo Chagas]

... why the rock in the hat translation process doesn't make sense ...

any rock in a translation process doesn't make sense.

with one exception:

if some special silicon based rocks are squared away to microprocessors and memories; then these rocks are assembled to computerlike devices; helped by thousands of unnamed programmers; and so on...

apparently "lamanites & joseph smith & company" had this technology