Oaks tries to re-raise the missionary bar....

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Stem and Analytics, great insight.

- Doc

[_lemuel]

Great OP, IHAQ. It illustrates that the biggest issue with the church in general and the missionary program in particular, which is the incongruity of it all:

God called you to be a missionary, but you don't have the physical, mental, and emotional aptitude to successfully do it. But it was really God himself through his authorized personal representatives that called you. But you really shouldn't have submitted the papers in the first place because you really aren't up to it. But every young man is expected to serve. But people like you aren't up to the task and you shouldn't feel bad about serving in different ways. But most importantly remember: when you are on the Lord's errand, you are entitled to the Lord's help.

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

[_I have a question]

Great OP, IHAQ. It illustrates that the biggest issue with the church in general and the missionary program in particular, which is the incongruity of it all:

God called you to be a missionary, but you don't have the physical, mental, and emotional aptitude to successfully do it. But it was really God himself through his authorized personal representatives that called you. But you really shouldn't have submitted the papers in the first place because you really aren't up to it. But every young man is expected to serve. But people like you aren't up to the task and you shouldn't feel bad about serving in different ways. But most importantly remember: when you are on the Lord's errand, you are entitled to the Lord's help.

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

I attended a prospective missionary night at which a Missionary President stated that if those young men didn’t serve missions their wives and children wouldn’t be as good as they could have been. Following his presentation I approached him in the foyer area and, in front of his collection of groupies, asked him to justify his comment that my wife and children weren’t as good as they could have been, on the basis I didn’t serve a mission. His face blushed, he looked embarrassed, laughed awkwardly. I stated, deadpan, that I didn’t find it funny and wanted him to explain his comments to me. There was an awkward silence amongst the group, he then mumbled something about that’s not what he meant and he was shuffled away.

What a jumped up self-important thoughtless prick. I’m glad I had the skin thick enough to call him out in public. But he’s the norm, not an outlier. He was, as Oaks is.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

I attended a prospective missionary night at which a Missionary President stated that if those young men didn’t serve missions their wives and children wouldn’t be as good as they could have been. Following his presentation I approached him in the foyer area and, in front of his collection of groupies, asked him to justify his comment that my wife and children weren’t as good as they could have been, on the basis I didn’t serve a mission. His face blushed, he looked embarrassed, laughed awkwardly. I stated, deadpan, that I didn’t find it funny and wanted him to explain his comments to me. There was an awkward silence amongst the group, he then mumbled something about that’s not what he meant and he was shuffled away.

What a jumped up self-important thoughtless prick. I’m glad I had the skin thick enough to call him out in public. But he’s the norm, not an outlier. He was, as Oaks is.

I'm really sorry that you had to go through that. The Mission President who gave that talk was a pompous asshole. Hopefully, you put him in his place a little bit. It sounds like he was, at the very least, flustered.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

Great OP, IHAQ. It illustrates that the biggest issue with the church in general and the missionary program in particular, which is the incongruity of it all:

God called you to be a missionary, but you don't have the physical, mental, and emotional aptitude to successfully do it. But it was really God himself through his authorized personal representatives that called you. But you really shouldn't have submitted the papers in the first place because you really aren't up to it. But every young man is expected to serve. But people like you aren't up to the task and you shouldn't feel bad about serving in different ways. But most importantly remember: when you are on the Lord's errand, you are entitled to the Lord's help.

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

And what does that say to boys like my autistic son, who may or may not be able to serve a mission? He is very high functioning, so if he wants to serve, I think he will be able to. But if, when he turns 18, he is not medically able, does that mean that he will be discriminated against by girls who think that you should only marry a returned missionary?

I'm glad you brought this up. It is another cruel piece of LDS culture.

[_Analytics]

What if the Church realizes the general futility of our current missionary system and wishes to minimize the decreasing returns by decreasing the missionaries. In that case, wouldn't the decision be rather wise? If we have panned out the stream then reducing the number of panners makes sense.

In the summer of 1990, Russ Ballard spoke at the training of new mission presidents, and a cassette tape of his talk were sent to all mission presidents around the world. My mission president liked the talk so much he played the tape at the zone conferences.

Back then, The Missionary Guide was brand new, and they decided that the key to success was for the missionaries to immerse themselves in it and follow its plan robotically. The main point of his message was that mission presidents had to preach The Missionary Guide non-stop. The part of his talk that really stuck, though, was a reference he made to a mission in the far-east--Okinawa perhaps? He threw out some statistics about what was happening there. Something to the effect that because of the cost of living and exchange rates, it cost $1,300 per missionary per month to be there, yet these missionaries were averaging something like 0.7 conversions per companionship per year. He then calculated the operational metrics just as a Harvard MBA would, and said that just in terms of what the missionaries were paying to be there and not counting the general overhead much less the opportunity cost of the missionaries, in that mission it cost $21,840 per convert. Ballard then got a bit emotional and pleaded that the church simply could not afford to pay $21,840 per convert forever, and that if these missionaries didn't start studying The Missionary Guide more intensely and thereby improve their conversion rates, that mission would have to be shut down.

Not surprisingly, The Missionary Guide strategy didn't pan out, and the missionaries are much less productive now than then. Switching to Preach My Gospel didn't help. Raising the bar didn't help. Lowering the missionary age didn't help.

My point is that the church must see the futility in all of this--they do in fact apply their business training to this endeavor. Maybe when they make excuses and blame the members they are being sincere, because what else can they do? As long as they believe sending kinds on proselytizing missions creates more life-long members than apostates, they'll continue with the program.

[_Dr Exiled]

In the summer of 1990, Russ Ballard spoke at the training of new mission presidents, and a cassette tape of his talk were sent to all mission presidents around the world. My mission president liked the talk so much he played the tape at the zone conferences.

[SNIP!]

My point is that the church must see the futility in all of this--they do in fact apply their business training to this endeavor. Maybe when they make excuses and blame the members they are being sincere, because what else can they do? As long as they believe sending kinds on proselytizing missions creates more life-long members than apostates, they'll continue with the program.

Indoctrination is definitely the key here. They obviously think that reciting a testimony over and over again to strangers will convert the unsuspecting youth and psychologically speaking there is something to that. However, the convert numbers have to continue to go down as the internet has exposed the church for the nonsense it is. The youth are seeing the light too. Who wants to commit to the high demands the church gives when it is total b.s.?

[_Jonah]

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

Unfortunately, in my screwed up TBM thinking days, this was a factor in my choosing a wife. I was dating a fairly hardcore “born in the church” gal who was crazy about me. We got along great and there was something about her that was special to me. I was also dating a gal who was a recent convert to the church and therefore was not raised with an “I must marry a returned missionary” type of attitude.

At one point I had to make a decision between the two. Being the shameful, disgusting, lowlife, early returned missionary that I was, I chose the gal who was a recent convert. I broke the other gal’s heart…but at the time I could not have handled getting serious with her only to have her tell me she was holding out for an RM.

So, in the end, I ended up marrying the convert gal. Our “honeymoon” was to drive to Provo where I had enrolled back at BYU. Eight months later after being influenced by weird Utah Mormons and other young married BYU couples, my bride came to me one night with a list of reasons why she made a mistake getting married. Her last reason was that she should have married a RETURNED MISSIONARY!!

We should have divorced right then but I was young, dumb, scared, and actually believed in an “eternal marriage”. Instead we stayed together for another 19 agonizing years before I called it quits (I thought I could stay in it “for the kids”…it turned out I couldn’t make it).

One day I got an email from my old TBM gal. We had not been in contact with each other for 20 years. She married someone totally opposite of me…a TBM RM guy who later was in the bishopric…until he was nabbed sexually molesting their daughters. She contacted me after her divorce and was still crazy about me. We hit it off great and in one of our discussions she asked why I broke up with her years before. I told her that one of the reasons was that I couldn’t handle being rejected for not being an "honorable" returned missionary.

She told me that that had never entered her mind…that she loved me for who I was and for what WE could become. Besides, she had two brothers who both hated their missions and wished they would have come home early. That opened her eyes. To her, me not serving a mission had no bearing on her whatsoever.

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[_Gadianton]

Analytics,

I completely agree with what you just said but perhaps I can throw in some of my own insights; I've made these before but time for a refresh.

Yeah, it wasn't working, and they had to know that things just weren't going to improve. What was working was real estate, and so it just made more sense to focus on that. With a boom plus tax advantage in their favor, the church made religion a secondary focus.

Well, we both must agree at some point that beating the market even with tax advantages isn't that easy, and with a bust plus mass overspending on city creek, and the ROI I'm thinking dropped to the point where they had to take risks with the religion arm and make a buck at sheering the sheep.

Well, neither is working, and then there's bleeding enlightened members, and there's a new and desperate three fold mission. Nelson keeps the reigns over the SCMC and forcing members to be good. Oaks takes over missionary revenues, and Erying takes over real estate. He's a business phd and the smartest guy in the room.

None of this is with the optimism of growth, but bailing water over the side.

[_Philo Sofee]

Analytics
As an ironic example of how the church is not only uninspired but is also unthinking, I know a kid who is over-the-top charismatic and intelligent, but at the same time has some pretty serious ADHD issues. He's the kind of kid who gets straight A's in honor courses when he is on his meds, but literally can't get a grade higher than an F when he isn't on his meds. He applied to go on a mission, and despite the high recommendations of his bishop and stake president, the church said no--people who take his specific pills are ineligible to be missionaries. But that is the irony--the pills are magical with him--they completely control his issues, have no side effects, and turn him into a model citizen. But the church won't touch him because he is using pills to manage his psychological issues. The unqualified success of the medication in his case doesn't enter into the equation.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a priesthood healing..... oh wait.