Oaks tries to re-raise the missionary bar....

[_DrW]

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

I attended a prospective missionary night at which a Missionary President stated that if those young men didn’t serve missions their wives and children wouldn’t be as good as they could have been. Following his presentation I approached him in the foyer area and, in front of his collection of groupies, asked him to justify his comment that my wife and children weren’t as good as they could have been, on the basis I didn’t serve a mission. His face blushed, he looked embarrassed, laughed awkwardly. I stated, deadpan, that I didn’t find it funny and wanted him to explain his comments to me. There was an awkward silence amongst the group, he then mumbled something about that’s not what he meant and he was shuffled away.

What a jumped up self-important thoughtless prick. I’m glad I had the skin thick enough to call him out in public. But he’s the norm, not an outlier. He was, as Oaks is.

Hey IHAQ,

You are not the only one who has heard that kind of sentiment from (so called) Church leaders. This kind of rhetoric has been used often I would imagine. I have certainly heard similar statements.

In my family, the brother who went on a mission ended up divorced and in a dead end job working for the LDS Church, with kids who are struggling.

The two brothers who did not go on missions ended up in stable marriages with successful business of their own, and well adjusted kids in loving, close-knit families and extended families.

Having heard these kinds of claims from arrogant Church leaders, my main regret is that I didn't respond exactly as you did.

Well done.

[_Jesse Pinkman]

I attended a prospective missionary night at which a Missionary President stated that if those young men didn’t serve missions their wives and children wouldn’t be as good as they could have been. Following his presentation I approached him in the foyer area and, in front of his collection of groupies, asked him to justify his comment that my wife and children weren’t as good as they could have been, on the basis I didn’t serve a mission. His face blushed, he looked embarrassed, laughed awkwardly. I stated, deadpan, that I didn’t find it funny and wanted him to explain his comments to me. There was an awkward silence amongst the group, he then mumbled something about that’s not what he meant and he was shuffled away.

What a jumped up self-important thoughtless prick. I’m glad I had the skin thick enough to call him out in public. But he’s the norm, not an outlier. He was, as Oaks is.

Hey IHAQ,

You are not the only one who has heard that kind of sentiment from (so called) Church leaders. This kind of rhetoric has been used often I would imagine. I have certainly heard similar statements.

In my family, the brother who went on a mission ended up divorced and in a dead end job working for the LDS Church, with kids who are struggling.

The two brothers who did not go on missions ended up in stable marriages with successful business of their own, and well adjusted kids in loving, close-knit families and extended families.

Having heard these kinds of claims from arrogant Church leaders, my main regret is that I didn't respond exactly as you did.

Well done.

I agree! “Well done, thou good and faithful servant..”

I’m sure that the idiotic mission president didn’t feel that way, but I sure do.

[_lemuel]

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

Unfortunately, in my screwed up TBM thinking days, this was a factor in my choosing a wife. I was dating a fairly hardcore “born in the church” gal who was crazy about me. We got along great and there was something about her that was special to me. I was also dating a gal who was a recent convert to the church and therefore was not raised with an “I must marry a returned missionary” type of attitude.

[SNIP!]

She told me that that had never entered her mind…that she loved me for who I was and for what WE could become. Besides, she had two brothers who both hated their missions and wished they would have come home early. That opened her eyes. To her, me not serving a mission had no bearing on her whatsoever.

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a Tom Hanks-level rom-com right there.

[_cwald]

And don't forget, good girls won't want to marry you if you don't serve a mission.

Unfortunately, in my screwed up TBM thinking days, this was a factor in my choosing a wife. I was dating a fairly hardcore “born in the church” gal who was crazy about me. We got along great and there was something about her that was special to me. I was also dating a gal who was a recent convert to the church and therefore was not raised with an “I must marry a returned missionary” type of attitude.

[SNIP!]

She told me that that had never entered her mind…that she loved me for who I was and for what WE could become. Besides, she had two brothers who both hated their missions and wished they would have come home early. That opened her eyes. To her, me not serving a mission had no bearing on her whatsoever.

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I love happy endings.

[Guest]

I was a devout TBM and proud RM. I dated several less than devout TBM girls and really found some awesome women, but I would not get too serious as I knew I would not marry them.

I finally got married to a devout TBM gal who would only marry a RM.

We have both admitted how shameful and shallow we were. I am embarrassed by my behavior, words and beliefs during that time. Perhaps the universe or the gods can forgive me with time because I was an awesome LDS member and a complete dick as human being.

My story worked out. We moved 500 miles away from all our family and set up in Oregon. Most of you have heard my boring story, but for this cliffnote post, I just restate that we had made a commitment that we would stay in the church together or we would leave the church together. After I got caught up in the whole "Dehlin wolf in sheep clothing scandal" my Cache Valley SP family members and brother dealing with "Dehlinites", after hosting Brother Whitney Clayton and Jeff Holland in his house for a weekend, made it their business to get me either back in line or kicked out...going so far as to pressure my wife to divorce me if I did not repent of my apostasy. They took my temple recommend, and released me from my EQ president, SS president callings. Bad bad decision.

Holland and Clayton meant to use me as an example of how to bring apostates back into the fold using "family pressure and tought love from local leaders. OMG, jwald, sweet jwald, never heard so many swear words and F bombs in my life that day when the idea of divorce was discussed as and option to motivate me to "repent." Wow. That really was something else.

Oh yeah...i was also accused of being "gay" because good RM EQPs wouldn't say stuff against the church otherwise and risk their marriages to good LDS homemakers. I was accused, by my own family, of being gay...because I disagreed vocally with the LDS corp political campaign known as Prop 8. wtf?

#notacult

We walked away from the church in 2011 on Mother's day, and took our three teens with us.

We're doing well. Very well.

Mothers day 2011, the North lake LDS Branch lost their EQ President, SS President, Primary President, EQ teacher, Primary Teacher, SS teacher, Chorister, HT, VT, a talented 16 year old girl who was running the young womans' group, and two of their three Aaronic Priesthood holders.

PS. the Branch is no longer operational. It's just a barren building growing weeds and in desperate need for the lawn to get mowed.

I told jwald that if we could stay together for 25 years, I would take her to Europe. This Summer, if we make it that far, we will be spending three weeks in Austria, Germany, England and Scotland. It should be a very nice 25 year anniversary event, and kind of a F-you to the church and family who went above and beyond to break up our family all in the name of obedience and loyalty and the 14 "F"s of Follow the LDS prophet and the church corporation in general.

#butitsnotacultLDS#

[_Dr. Shades]

One day I got an email from my old TBM gal. . . she loved me for who I was and for what WE could become. . . To her, me not serving a mission had no bearing on her whatsoever.

If I remember correctly, you two got married and lived happily for about four years until she passed away, right?

[_Jonah]

One day I got an email from my old TBM gal. . . she loved me for who I was and for what WE could become. . . To her, me not serving a mission had no bearing on her whatsoever.

If I remember correctly, you two got married and lived happily for about four years until she passed away, right?

Yeah, you are correct. At first she refused to get back together because she didn't want to risk me hurting her again. I fought for her heart and eventually won her over. We had four incredible years together before cancer stole her away. We never married but had plans to after I sold my business (I sold it a year after she passed away). She used to tell me how lucky she was to have me in her life. I let her think that...but really...I was the lucky one.

[_I have a question]

Going back to Oaks...

I wonder if he’s looking at projections showing the decline in numbers of missionaries and is trying to get a ‘reason’ in early. Drawing the target round where the arrow looks to be falling. Claiming the decline is a raising the bar consequence, even though its sonething else entirely.

Got to put a shiny spin on everything, right?

[_deacon blues]

Spencer "every worthy young man should serve a mission" Kimball is rolling over in his grave. I remember many Elders in my mission (1970's after Pres. Kimball's call to arms) who had the desire to serve, but lacked the emotional or intellectual ability to serve, or the maturity. Elder Oaks thinks this is a bigger problem than the flawed restoration story he is trying to get these kids to peddle. The sad fact is, every kid who gets sent back will be viewed by some as damaged goods. Didn't they see this coming when they lowered the age limits?

[_I have a question]

“We have now completed the extraordinary expenditures of time required to accommodate the large variations in the numbers of missionaries that occurred after the age for missionary service was reduced,” Elder Oaks noted. “We are now able to increase our focus on teaching repentance and baptizing converts. That is the doctrinal purpose of missionary work: teaching repentance and baptizing converts to the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

This is an interesting insight. With Monsons funeral service barely finished, here is Oaks using his first public address as first counsellor in the FP to openly criticise the decision to reduce the age at which a missionary can serve. He’s stating explicitly that the ‘bubble’ soaked up inordinate amounts of management time and resulted in the programme losing focus on baptising converts.

Keep in mind, the missionary age reduction was the signature piece of Monson’s tenure.
And here we have Oaks, immediately after Monson’s death, telling everybody it didn’t work.