MTC President Sexually Assaulted Sister Missionaries

[_kairos]

Just sent peggy fletcher stack an email on this- the church will play hell covering this up! but they will try!!

of course this perverrt believes the Book of Mormon is true and has so many spiritual experiences!

to get the full impact one must read or listen to whole thing/

k

[_bcuzbcuz]

Consig,

Your lawyer background is overriding your Mormon background. I served a mission before this event transpired. If a woman started making the accusations she has, in the manner she is, even though it was that long ago, I would be denying it at every opportunity. Explicitly denying it, as in "that absolutely did not happen."

So while a court of law may care how he is responding, the court of what probably really did happen is strongly against him being innocent.

You may be right about this. I have already had another friend tell me he thinks I am thinking about this too much like a defense attorney. I am doing my best to be fair to the evidence as I have skimmed over it.

[SNIP!]

Still trying to get my head around this, so to speak, and I appreciate your willingness to hear me think out loud.

A person of authority admitting he raped someone, on tape? what world do you live in?

I personally drove with an abused woman, the dried blood caked to her face, to the hospital, with her husband sitting beside her. For the entire journey he repeatedly told her to tell the doctor that she ”fell down the stairs”.

My two small children awoke me that morning, saying, ”Grandma is sick and she can’t get up”. We found her, lying on the kitchen floor. Her hair was stuck to the floor in a puddle of dried blood. She had lain there the entire night after being beaten by her husband. After beating her he had gone to bed to sleep off his alcoholic stupor.

Years later my wife accused her father of his beating his wife, her mother, repeatedly for more than 30 years.

Did he admit his guilt? Did he break down in tears and confess? Ha!

He turned beet red with rage. He called his daughter an ungrateful b, a whore, a slut, a useless daughter not worthy of his respect. How could she dare accuse him of ever mistreating his wife who he loved above all else? To his dying day he never admitted any wrong doing. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Seldom do the guilty ever admit guilt or feel remorse. It’s true in politics, it’s true for religious leaders.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I don't know what Consiglieri wants Bishop to admit? This isn't Tom Cruise badgering Nicholson on the stand. He's not going to get a Code Red moment. Comments from the Reddit thread:

About halfway through the recording, she says "you would be the Harvey Weinstein of the Mormon Church if this went public."

His reply: "Yes, I would be."

Aside from the mere existence of the rape room, his guesses at her identity leave little room in my mind that there were other victims [edit to add: specifically that there were other victims at the MTC aside from the Interviewer and the one redacted name of the girl who lived with him]:

Interviewer: You took me down, you don't remember taking a sister missionary downstairs into the basement?... So do you remember the room in the basement?

Joseph Bishop: I do.

Interviewer: Do you remember the movies in the basement? The DVD, the VHS player and the TV? No. Do you remember tearing my blouse, pulling up my skirt, ripping the back of my skirt and trying to rape me? But you didn't, because you didn't have a full erection. You don't remember that?

There are apparently several women who fit that profile. He first recalls a woman with some biker friends.

Joseph Bishop: Do you have some biker friends?

Interviewer: No, biker friends? God, no.

Nope, not her. Then after getting a little more information he recalls a woman who had her picture taken at the temple.

Joseph Bishop: You went over to the temple, had your picture taken, was that?

Interviewer: No.

Joseph Bishop: Okay.

Whoops, not her either. He should probably stop guessing women.

But no, he mistakes her for yet another woman who's defining characteristic in his mind is that she'd had breast enhancement surgery.

Joseph Bishop: What I remember about the basement was different.

Interviewer: Oh?

Joseph Bishop: Uh-huh. You had had an operation, a breast enhancement.

Interviewer: No. (laughs) No. I had no boobs at 21 years old.

I'm struggling to read these attempt to remember her as anything but tiny glimpses into more rapes.

At one point he claims if the full extent of his sins were to be revealed he would be excommunicated and the Mormon Church would be embarrassed.

By saying he has a sex addiction, he is making it a medical condition rather than a matter of poor behavior and judgement.

It kills me that he sought after the women that were previous victims. He sought out the broken, to break them more. They went to him for help, they told their stories of pain and abuse and HE FURTHER ABUSED them! The abuses he committed were reported to higher church leaders and IGNORED. This is why we need to stop teaching our children to go to their ecclesiastical leaders for these issues, and the church needs to train the leaders to REPORT, not just council.

So on and so forth. I got confirmation today the SL Tribune is working on the story. Can't wait.

- Doc

[_Shulem]

So on and so forth. I got confirmation today the SL Tribune is working on the story. Can't wait.

- Doc

Bishop is guilty as sin. He knows damn well he committed multiple kinds of sexual offenses against women to ruin his legacy, get excommunicated, and disgrace the church. The confessions are right there on tape in the English language. I listened to the old hypocrite admit his sins with my own ears. That's all I need.

Guilty as charged!

Excommunicate him!

[_Sammy Jankins]

I don't know what Consiglieri wants Bishop to admit? This isn't Tom Cruise badgering Nicholson on the stand. He's not going to get a Code Red moment. Comments from the Reddit thread:

A person of authority admitting he raped someone, on tape? what world do you live in?

Stephen Collins the actor who played the dad on 7th Heaven was recorded on tape confessing. Listening to it I did expect and even hope for a more direct expression of guilt.

When he says he would be excommunicated is the most damning part of the interview. But the way he talks about a woman showing him and his friend her swim suit it gives me pause. It makes me wonder if he appreciates that he is being accused of being the Mormon Weinstein. I’m not saying I think he is innocent. But his comprehension is a question that needs to be addressed.

[_Sammy Jankins]

She says: “I threatened to kill you in 2010.”

And just moments later he says. “I’m glad to run into you again.”

I think there should be at least a little hesitation here about his comprehension.

[_Fence Sitter]

I find it hard to believe that this is a case of an old man deep into dementia. Why in the world would anyone who is charged with taking care of such a mentally incapacitated elderly allow any sort of unsupervised interview to take place?

I think many people would not have anticipated a hostile interview even with a mental condition. So I wouldn't read into that at all.

Here is the thing, if we assume there is some sort of mental condition, it is reasonable to also assume those around him are aware of it. At a minimum, if such a condition existed, I would expect someone else from his support group to be at his side during the interview. There was no such person, nor as far as I know did anyone check up on him during the interview. So there is no indication such a condition exists. If there is one then where were the people who were supposed to be taking care of him?

[_Meadowchik]

She says: “I threatened to kill you in 2010.”

And just moments later he says. “I’m glad to run into you again.”

I think there should be at least a little hesitation here about his comprehension.

That could indicate narcissism, but not necessarily a lack of comprehension.

[_Water Dog]

Consig, as far as admissibility in court, I agree that this is not only useless but a good attorney could easily flip the script with it. In the court of public opinion, however, it seems pretty damning to me. To start with, how would this woman know any of these things? It's clearly not some manufactured ruse. Something happened. I can appreciate that her memory may not align with his, for various reasons. She may have perceived what he did as attempted rape. Whereas in the moment he never perceived it that way. And clearly this woman was also subject to quite a lot of other abuse which has maybe warped her perspective on all this a bit. It's also reasonable to interpret that there have been so many women he just doesn't remember. His words very much give that impression.

For me the takeaway though is this.

One, that this man was serially abusing women, even if just in the sense that he leveraged his position to lure them into inappropriate sexual situations where consent becomes dubious. And he did so while serving as MTC president and in other high ranking roles.

Two, other leaders clearly knew. Bishop claims to have confessed to them, the woman interviewing claims to have multiple times reported things to leaders herself, and so on. They swept it under the rug. Documents to prove it in court, no, but not like that's a matter which would be subject to court to begin with. This should be a public matter for the LDS community to be made aware of, leadership malfeasance.

Three, even more substantial, this incident would seem to surpass Mark Hoffman in terms of of significance and the implications for inspired church leadership.

As recently as 2017 Elder Eyring said the following in conference.

For instance, it takes faith to believe that the resurrected Lord is watching over the daily details of His kingdom. It takes faith to believe that He calls imperfect people into positions of trust. It takes faith to believe that He knows the people He calls perfectly, both their capacities and their potential, and so makes no mistakes in His calls.

I remember Hallstrom saying this at once of the last conferences I watched.

the voices of the Lord’s servants, which are the same as the Lord’s own voice

I'm preaching to the choir. There are countless examples of this. The leadership claims Christ literally directs the affairs of the church. Mistakes of this sort cannot be made. So, either they're full of crap, and mistakes are made, or Christ wanted this man to abuse women at the MTC.

Mission calls in particular are hyped up, one of the few callings that apostles are directly involved with. They choose where the kid should serve. Adds to the aura of it all. You've got the freaking MTC president, of all people, abusing sisters right there in Provo? Gee willikers. I'm honestly not sure it could get much worse than that. The only thing worse would be a sex scandal involving the president of the church. Or a murder scandal. The MTC president! Who members entrust their kids with.

[_I have a question]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mormonther ... rship.html

It was extremely sad, and yet not surprising, to see the information shared on Mormon Leaks today in regards to prior Provo MTC president, Joseph L. Bishop. Another example (in many I have been privy of) where LDS leaders are protected from correct investigation and prosecution… (not to mention church discipline) usually because a “repentance” process is undergone by leaders who don’t pass the responsibility to civil authorities and who don’t want to ruin another’s reputation.
I also want to share my most recent podcast on Mormon Mental Health where “Dave,” a prior bishop… talks about some of the things that happen when abuse gets reported within the church system… when the LDS hotline gets called… and his very clear guidance that the church is not the entity to go to with these issues. That the appropriate place to go is to civil and mental health authorities who are trained, qualified and have legal jurisdiction to deal with these types of issues.