Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse

[_Meadowchik]

Except that several law enforcement entities looked at these accusations and decided they did not merit further action. Were they all wrong? Were they all part of some huge cover-up? Or were the charges unfounded?

And isn't it interesting that "John and Jane Doe" filed this lawsuit soon after Russell M. Nelson because the president of the Church? Just a coincidence, right?

The MeToo movement has given many sexual assault victims hope that they'll finally be heard.

by the way, how trustworthy are police who call ahead to make appointments with the suspect before searching the home, warning what they're searching for? And how much influence has the LDS Church had over law enforcement in Utah, historically?

[_GameOver]

You can read the entire story from a Grandparent of the alleged victims below.

http://www.restoreourhumanity.org/files/ABlipHere.pdf

A summary of the book “Paper Dolls” can be read below. It’s about this case.

https://affirmation.org/resources/books-films-plays-television/books-articles/3067-2/

The Federal Complaint/Lawsuit can be read here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/390087748/Jane-and-John-Doe-Federal-Lawsuit-Complaint#from_embed

The Pace Memo:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no80.htm

The Report of Utah State Task Force on Ritual Abuse:

http://saferchildren.net/print/utahrataskforce.pdf

The Book “Hell Minus One” by Anne A. Johnson Davis - who’s parents confessed in writing to law enforcement about their involvement in Satanic Ritual Abuse. Anne Davis ultimately committed suicide.

http://hellminusone.com/

[Schreech]

Yes, you're "just saying."

by the way, the accusers in the lawsuit have already been corroborated in their accusations against their father who molested them, admitted it, and received psychological treatment for pedophilia. The question is whether the Miles were also involved in the sexual abuse.

Except that several law enforcement entities looked at these accusations and decided they did not merit further action. Were they all wrong? Were they all part of some huge cover-up? Or were the charges unfounded?

And isn't it interesting that "John and Jane Doe" filed this lawsuit soon after Russell M. Nelson because the president of the Church? Just a coincidence, right?

No. Wrong. See the timeline I posted.

Jane Doe 1,2,5 and John Doe 1 were medically assessed by a Dr at the Primary Care Hospital. There was no doubt that they were sexually abused from a medical standpoint.

That there was no church or police interest in discipline despite the clear evidence of abuse, is the most puzzling thing about this.

Hadfield and Bullock didn't get off so lightly.

[_Mary]

You can read the entire story from a Grandparent of the alleged victims below.

http://www.restoreourhumanity.org/files/ABlipHere.pdf

A summary of the book “Paper Dolls” can be read below. It’s about this case.

https://affirmation.org/resources/books-films-plays-television/books-articles/3067-2/

The Federal Complaint/Lawsuit can be read here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/390087748/Jane-and-John-Doe-Federal-Lawsuit-Complaint#from_embed

The Pace Memo:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no80.htm

The Report of Utah State Task Force on Ritual Abuse:

http://saferchildren.net/print/utahrataskforce.pdf

The Book “Hell Minus One” by Anne A. Johnson Davis - who’s parents confessed in writing to law enforcement about their involvement in Satanic Ritual Abuse. Anne Davis ultimately committed suicide.

http://hellminusone.com/

Those are useful. Thanks. Trying to update the timeline with links.

[_Mary]

Rosebud, I absolutely trust the source on my Facebook page who noted the police reports for the time are missing. A whole file going missing is puzzling.

[_Rosebud]

Rosebud, I absolutely trust the source on my Facebook page who noted the police reports for the time are missing. A whole file going missing is puzzling.

Okay, let's get documentation of the missing file and add that documentation to the chronological list of occurrences and links.

What is omitted and missing is just as important as what is available.

[_cinepro]

Hadfield and Bullock didn't get off so lightly.

And Hadfield and Bullock were almost certainly innocent.

[_Rosebud]

Hadfield and Bullock didn't get off so lightly.

And Hadfield and Bullock were almost certainly innocent.

I don't understand how anybody on this board could know that.

None of us -know-. We all approach this from our own perspectives and based on our own life experiences.

Gathering data and documentation is what's important at this juncture. Information and/or evidence are valuable. Speculation and sensationalization are not valuable.

Without information and documentation, we're all just asserting ourselves into something we didn't personally witness.

[_cinepro]

And Hadfield and Bullock were almost certainly innocent.

I don't understand how anybody on this board could know that.

If the entire line of "evidence" against someone who was accused of sexual abuse in the 1980s is based on memories children had after visiting Barbara Snow or another therapist who believes that "recovered memories" are real, then yeah, they were almost certainly innocent.

By the end of the 1990s, many of the trauma clinics that had specialized in recovered memory therapy had shut down. The daytime talk shows about Satanic abuse and multiple personalities became less frequent, and the courts became wary of testimony based on recovered memories. Richard McNally, the director of clinical training in the Department of Psychology at Harvard and author of the book Remembering Trauma, put it bluntly in a friend-of-court brief: “The notion that traumatic events can be repressed and later recovered is the most pernicious bit of folklore ever to infect psychology and psychiatry.”

The Most Dangerous Idea in Mental Health

And if you believe kids wouldn't lie about such things, or even that people wouldn't confess to something they didn't do, then you're not judging such situations accurately.

If the child hadn't made any specific accusations before they talked to a therapist, or there wasn't any corroborating physical evidence, then extreme caution is warranted.

[_Rosebud]

In an effort to add some information, when the victims make claims of "programming" and have therapists supporting them in the idea that "programming" actually did occur, they are sensationalizing "operant conditioning."

Here's the wikipedia article on operant conditioning:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

Here is an introduction to clicker training with dogs video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TxvHDVX2rQ

Yes, you can use a clicker to train small children, just like dogs, although most people would say this was unethical. That said, I actually had to deal with a primary teacher using a clicker on one of my children as a Sunbeam. Seriously. I put a stop to that one in a hurry.... and found myself as the new Sunbeam teacher.

Basically, in operant conditioning, a sound or another stimulus is paired with a reward or a punishment. Then, after the stimulus is paired, other commands and desired behaviors can also be paired with the stimulus. The stimulus and commands can then be used without the reward or punishment in order to elicit a desired behavior from a dog -- or a child.

If you have specific desired behaviors you want from a child.... and you want the children to perform on command.... operant conditioning is the way to go.