Treasure Digging Podcast

[_cwald]

OMG. That is easily the best rfm podcast to date. That is amazing research and wonderful nuggets of information to help understand Joseph Smith early life. Thanks.

I love this quote "Yesterday's exmormon and apostate criticism is today's LDS truth."

[_Shulem]

I, the Lord your God, am not displeased with your coming this journey, notwithstanding your follies.

So, does this mean you're pleased with Smith riding into Salem looking for buried treasure in hopes of paying off church debts? If you're not displeased, Lord, then perhaps you're pleased with Smith's romp into Salem. Right? But what of his "follies"? Please define what you mean by Smith's follies. How is that pleases you? Or do you simply not care one way or the other? Tell us, Jesus, what you really think!

I have much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality.

You have much "treasure" in Salem for Joseph Smith? Really? Will he ride out with it in a leather bag? Will he cash it in at the bank of Salem and then head to New York to pay off the debts of the church? What are these much treasures, Lord that will benefit Zion? It sounds valuable. The Holy Spirit surely knows where the treasures are buried.

Therefore, it is expedient that you should form acquaintance with men in this city, as you shall be led, and as it shall be given you.

Shall be "led" Shall be "given"? Is the Holy Ghost to lead Joseph Smith to the treasures and give them to him? That's what he came to Salem for, right?

And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.

Now you're talking, Lord! This "secret" is so exciting. Joseph Smith is going to gain power over Salem and the Holy Ghost will lead him to the treasure. Give us gold! Give us silver! Give us treasure! Give us all that we came to Salem for! Thank you, Jesus.

Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them.

The Kirtland banking society will be a great success. Thank you, Lord, for the prophecy!

Concern not yourselves about Zion, for I will deal mercifully with her.

Like you did with when you attempted to establish Zion in Missouri but was thrown out and the church lost its investments? The city and the temple were not built. No mercy there.

Tarry in this place, and in the regions round about;

And do what? Look for gold and silver?

And the place where it is my will that you should tarry, for the main, shall be signalized unto you by the peace and power of my Spirit, that shall flow unto you.

Kind of like what you said about Jackson county Missouri? The Spirit didn't pan out too well on that venture, right Lord? But hey, just send the signal and let's see what comes of it.

This place you may obtain by hire. And inquire diligently concerning the more ancient inhabitants and founders of this city;

Joseph Smith hasn't been able to acquire the house with the hidden treasures. He's thought about renting it or buying it but so far it's just not happening. The prophet is worried the treasures are going to slip through his fingers, Lord. He promised Emma that he'd find treasure this time. Please help!

For there are more treasures than one for you in this city.

The more the treasure the merrier! Bless thy church with filthy treasure, Lord!

Therefore, be ye as wise as serpents and yet without sin; and I will order all things for your good, as fast as ye are able to receive them. Amen.

The church will gladly receive as much treasure as you are willing to give. Open up the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing upon thy saints so that the prophet can go to New York and pay off the debt as he visualized through the Spirit.

[_Shulem]

Treasures had by the prophet witness that the church is restored.

[_Shulem]

Question: Was Joseph Smith commanded by the Lord to go to Salem, Massachusetts to hunt for treasure in the cellar of a house?

Answer: The trip was apparently made on their own initiative, and was not commanded by the Lord.

FAIRMORMON (Victory for Satan) has no right to say Joseph Smith didn't receive a direct commandment to go to Salem in effort to soften the blow. There is no record in which Smith states he was NOT commanded and was simply doing it on his own whim or accord. Absence of evidence is not evidence! It's hypocritical of FAIRMORMON to use this tactic. FAIRMORMON cannot say that Smith was not commanded by God to go to Salem. They can only say that they know of no account or statement in which God commanded him to go to Salem and have no choice but to leave the question open ended. Obviously Smith was dreaming about treasure and seeing he was a prayerful man and always getting revelations and commandments it's reasonable to think he got one to go to Salem. But who knows? Obviously he was told by God that there were treasures to be found so he ran with it.

[_Shulem]

Joseph did not "prophesy" that they would find money in Salem, but instead made the trip because he became convinced that the story that the treasure existed might true. Upon failing to locate the money, they spent their time preaching to the people in Salem.

You don't know that he did NOT prophesy. You were not there. Absence of evidence is not evidence to make such a statement. For all you know Smith prophesied several time to several people that they would find money in Salem but it simply was not written or recorded for the record.

Obviously Smith was convinced there was money. But he failed to find it. He failed to do a lot of things. He failed to build the temple in Jackson county even though he was commanded by God to build it and had a vision of building up Zion in the center place. But as we saw, Zion was not built and neither did he find his treasure in Salem. Commandment or no commandment. He failed.

[_Shulem]

The revelation (D&C 111) itself indicates that the Lord did not command the prophet to go to Salem to obtain money

The revelation was Joseph Smith backpedaling and covering his ass for God only knows what he said to Emma, his friends, and all those involved in this little treasure hunt.

You weren't there, FAIRMORMON. Smith was apt to make all kinds of wild claims about all kinds of wild things. That was his nature.

[_Shulem]

The trip to Salem was apparently "a venture of their own design, not one of divine direction"

So, here we have the prophet and his closest associates traveling about for weeks without divine direction. How hardly does that fit with Smith's schedule. The man claimed revelations left and right. But now FAIRMORMON wants us to think Smith blindly left Kirtland seeking for treasures and all this without the direction of the Lord or a single drop of the Holy Ghost to tell him to cease from his "follies".

Riiiiiiight.



FAIRMORMON -- you are stupid! Stupid!

[_Shulem]

Very interesting. It appears that the Four Amigos may have had some differences once they got to Salem. Like, perhaps, where the hell are the treasures, Joe? Thanks to BYU professor Alexander L. Baugh, I've surmised that the Four Amigos were not a united front when they arrived in Salem to hunt for treasure.

A Historical Note on Joseph
Smith’s 1836 Visit to the East
India Marine Society Museum in
Salem, Massachusetts

THE FOUR AMIGOS:

Joseph Smith
Hyrum Smith
Oliver Cowdery
Sidney Rigdon

They arrived in Salem on Thursday August 4th, 1836. Two days later, on Saturday the 6th, Joseph Smith received the revelation of D&C 111. But what were the Amigos doing during Smith's revelation about his "follies" in looking for treasure? It appears, according to the guest register of the East India Marina Society museum that two of the Amigos (Oliver & Sidney) went out to do some sightseeing. But Joseph & Hyrum are not on the register. Why? The brethren split up! Discord, perhaps? Sounds like Joseph was having to come up with some answers fast because there were obviously divisions among them.

Lo, two days later, on Tuesday August 9th 1836 Joseph Smith visited the above museum all by himself. His is the only name (of the Four Amigos) on the guest register! Not even Hyrum's name is on the register. It seems to me that the brethren were divided and there were probably some hard feelings along with discussion of treasure and revelations.

Or not.

[_Shulem]

One of Joseph Smith's main partners in crime was Oliver Cowdery. During his visit to the eastern seaboard he maintained correspondence with the LATTER DAY SAINT'S MESSENGER AND ADVOCATE in which he was the editor. An interesting clip he included in the October 1836 edition about his trip to Salem is:

Salem is a pleasantly situated town, with fifteen thousand inhabitants; its streets, though narrow, are remarkably still, and the people very civil. In fact, I may say in truth, that I never visited a place of its size where so little bustle and noise were to be seen and heard. The inhabitants as I learned are generally wealthy and the almost entire business of the place is commercial. Marblehead, Beverly & Danvers, in the immediate vicinity, and in sight, are said to contain as many more inhabitants. Between Boston and Salem, say eight miles from the former, is Lynn, an industrious manufacturing town, fast increasing in wealth and population.

Now, with that said, how does the so-called revelation of D&C 111 find fulfillment in light of what Cowdery thought of Salem and what Smith said was going to happen:

And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.

Really? When did that ever happen? When did Joseph Smith assume power or control in Salem insomuch as he'd have power over the city? What "secret parts" is Joseph Smith hiding? What's up his sleeve? When did Smith and the Mormons obtain the wealth of Salem to include GOLD and SILVER?

This prophecy is utterly false. It never happened. Joseph Smith was wrong. He was a fool and his "follies" were manifest. Mormonism is cracked!

[_Shulem]

SHULEM: Mr. Smith, do you really think you and your brother are going to find treasure in Salem?

SMITH: I've been informed by a most reliable source that treasures have been hid up and lost in this most peculiar of cities.

SHULEM: Indeed, there may be. Have you prayed and made supplication to God that you might be led to buried treasure so that your church may profit therefrom?

SMITH: Verily, not a day goes by without making supplication and seeking direct guidance from God in all things who even today is pouring out his Spirit upon me.

SHULEM: Well, sir, I wish you all the best in finding treasure in Salem.

SMITH: Your kind gesture is much appreciated. I testify that the hand of providence is upon Zion and the Almighty is pouring out his Spirit upon me as I am even now ready to travel east to answer the call. Good day to you, Shulem, and God's speed.