New Name Noah's Brother

[_Servant]

Thanks for the suggestion, I see the Metzger was Ehrman's master and doctorate mentor, I assume through part of Ehrman's life when he was orthodox believing.

It is interesting how some, upon hitting the scholarly levels lose their faith, hence my interest in some whom have studied and remain faithful.

Among previous believers
Ehrman, Price, Barker, Andrews, Shermer[/quote]

Shall we name some Mormons who no longer believe the myth? Have any, for instance, once posted on this very site?

[_Servant]

That was one adorable rant, Servant. I wish you the best, but from this vantage point, you sound like a bully who got challenged by another bully. I have no idea what this has to do with us, or what you'd like to see done about it. But I will add, it's pretty silly to condemn a people based on the actions of one.

my mommies a sweet Mormon who might give you a new perspective on Mormons and whose good or nice. But then again I have no desire to put a bully on her...so have a good one.

It's the Mormon lies I condemn. I feel sad for those of you who have been seduced, your Mom included. But, it will not change the fact that Christians are called to expose false teachings and teachers.

[_Maksutov]

Oh. my. gosh. Why did I read this thread?

It's a nice reminder of Christian Crazy. As if we needed one.

[Guest]

I'm not sure I picked up on how this explains the relationship of the atonement to the LDS idea of exaltation.

Many mansions infers that there may be a house for you and a house for me. A house for everyone. Whether or not all of those houses are identical clones of each other is debatable. But the door is open at that point to discuss salvation based on faith and works and that there will be a judgement. Many Christians are on board with that. Christ's atonement is that which makes possible being saved in any condition.

It's not rocket science, honor.

I'm not sure that I would want you trying to explain anything to a 'newbie' from Biblical Christianity. I think you'd blow them out of the water before they ever have a chance to believe.

Milk before meat. Keep it simple.

[Kierkegaard] was against an individual waiting until certain of God's love and salvation before beginning to try to become a Christian. He defined this as a "special type of religious conflict the Germans call Anfechtung" (contesting or disputing). In Kierkegaard's view the Church should not try to prove Christianity or even defend it. It should help the single individual to make a leap of faith, the faith that God is love and has a task for that very same single individual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard

I think that as LDS missionaries come across those that have Biblical Christianity as their guide, as the plan of salvation and later exaltation is placed before them they will...in many cases..."make a leap of faith" in understanding/accepting that God's love is made manifest to His children through the ordinances of the temple.

Regards,
MG

Oh, yeah, learning the handshakes and passwords in your pathetic, ostentatious temples - yeah, that will impress a Christian-NOT. The Temple rituals are one of the greatest evidences that Mormonism is pagan. If somebody really enjoys the boredom and reworked Masonic rituals that the Mormon temple offers, then they have really been totally deceived, perhaps blinded by Satan (and, yes, he does exist - the aggressive hatred of Christianity by Mormons proves that). It wasn't so long ago that Mormons were vowing in their bizarre temples to take vengeance upon this country, or sending out Danites to kill apostates, or slaughtering unarmed men, women and children in Southern Utah who simply wanted to pass through that area. No, pal, Christians make their leap of faith to Christ, not to a Pedophile prophet who liked little girls, groomed them right in his own home as bedmates, and actually warned the naïve that some angel would kill him if he didn't "marry" them! That Mormon leap is into Hell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usJw0-rOqzY

And the above character has the gall to call Christians crazy? Isn't it crazy to be on a forum like this congratulating each other on how Mormonism can be mocked, and Christianity made to appear foolish and full of guile? Where does it get you people? You all are simply afraid to confront the truth of Jesus Christ in an intelligent manner. Better to call the Christian names than to deal with the possibility that Jesus was exactly Who He claimed to be.

[_honorentheos]

snip

Servant, the point here is that the evidence ought to be considered in full rather than just that which supports your view. If the scriptures call into question their own reliability for telling us what actually happened when it came to the claims Jesus was resurrected, are we then left with more to be skeptical of than sure of in that regard? It seems that way to me.

Mormons always badmouth the Bible - that's the only way they can get by after all. How about proving that Joseph Smith's "translation" is supported by manuscript evidence? How about telling us where all the Nephites went, and why today's lamanites have lost all Hebrew DNA? I won't be lectured, thank you very much, by Mormons regarding the Word of God, for they deny it outright.https://www.josh.org/can-really-know-bi ... JMQAvD_BwE

I'm not a believing Mormon. I was raised LDS so it certainly is part of who I am no matter what I do, but I don't believe Smith was anything other than a successful con artist. Jesus wasn't resurrected, there were no Nephites, no Adam, Noah, or Abraham. The historical Jesus was no more or less divine than you or I or anyone else. I'm not Mormon, Christian, Atheist, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, New Age Transhumanist or any other -ist like catagory. If anything, I'm a bit of a skeptic of extraordinary claims no matter their source; a searcher and admirer of the good, beautiful and true while infinitely locked in struggle with the subjective nature of all three, and intent on making the most of this experience of being alive. I appreciate for me that includes being a father, husband, and friend as well as sparring partner, antagonist and asshole on occasion. I believe myth has real power, and what has proven successful socially over thousands of years should not be dismissed out of hand because evolution is more than a biological force. But because things have been a certain way doesn't mean they should also remain that way because evolution is more than a biological force.

[_Servant]

I'm not a believing Mormon. I was raised LDS so it certainly is part of who I am no matter what I do, but I don't believe Smith was anything other than a successful con artist. Jesus wasn't resurrected, there were no Nephites, no Adam, Noah, or Abraham. The historical Jesus was no more or less divine than you or I or anyone else. I'm not Mormon, Christian, Atheist, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, New Age Transhumanist or any other -ist like category. If anything, I'm a bit of a skeptic of extraordinary claims no matter their source; a searcher and admirer of the good, beautiful and true while infinitely locked in struggle with the subjective nature of all three, and intent on making the most of this experience of being alive. I appreciate for me that includes being a father, husband, and friend as well as sparring partner, antagonist and asshole on occasion. I believe myth has real power, and what has proven successful socially over thousands of years should not be dismissed out of hand because evolution is more than a biological force. But because things have been a certain way doesn't mean they should also remain that way because evolution is more than a biological force.

So, I'm supposed to give up my faith and follow you - because now YOU have all the answers, right? Why is what you "think" more important than what I believe? I base my faith on reason and Scripture. I pursued history in college, and if you know anything about that, you'd know that historical facts are often different than a particular "version of history." There are basic facts about Joseph Smith who began Mormonism that must be dealt with: He was an occultist. He practiced scrying. He made a lot of money on real estate deals in Nauvoo. He made many prophecies regarding how his Israel's Camp would be successful in Missouri, which were not fulfilled. Based on facts, a thinking person cannot follow Joseph Smith. On the other hand, the Bible's N.T. is really a historical narrative of Jesus and His times. A lot of people tried to explain the empty tomb, but to no avail. The very fact that a handful of cowardly followers turned into brave and strong advocates for and preachers of the Gospel, which spread all over the world, seems to say that something empowered them. It was knowledge that Christ rose from the dead. It was the Pentecost experience. Paul, himself, said there were at least 500 witnesses to Christ's bodily resurrection - and nobody debunked him about that claim. And many were still living. Joseph Smith was an opportunistic conman whose hand reaches beyond his grave in Nauvoo to grab at the souls of men and women who are not satisfied with Christ, but want "more." And, more they will get - although not what they expected. Jesus beckons you to come and see - why not? You have nothing to lose obviously, and everything to gain if Jesus was raised from the dead. Right now you are simply a believer in nothing but your own self. Just another VICTIM of Smith, as are most on this forum.

[_honorentheos]

Alternatively, you could defend the things you've claimed. Like, I don't know, proving the resurrection or explaining what is wrong in my prior analysis of the synoptic expansions that created the resurrection stories we know and syncretized into one story today. This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not an assertion forum you know.

[_Meadowchik]

Jesus beckons you to come and see - why not? You have nothing to lose obviously, and everything to gain if Jesus was raised from the dead. Right now you are simply a believer in nothing but your own self. Just another VICTIM of Smith, as are most on this forum.

Not true, belief in someone else's ideology can be disastrous. I will alternatively be as conscientious as I can, collecting ideas of merit on a case-by-case basis. Ideology from arguments of authority can be profoundly immoral, resulting in serious lifelong, even mortal harm.

[_Servant]

Just to be clear Servant does not represent Christianity at all, just like Nightlion does not represent Mormonism. As much as I would like to, I can’t defend her mindset. All I can say the world is made up of Mounds bars, and mixed in are a some Almond Joys, it can’t be helped.

No worries. I doubt anyone here would confuse one apoplectic poster with your standard Christian.

That's probably true, since the "standard" Christian is really clueless about Mormonism. But also to be clear, the pussy footing ex-Mormon here who claims to be a Christian and sometimes posts on CARM certainly is not representative of a mature Christian (one who doesn't try to keep a foot in both camps). Wimpy Christians are often no Christians at all. Wimps get off on attacking people when they think they are in the company of other like-thinking people.

[_Doctor Steuss]

Hi Servant, now that almost a year has passed, I was wondering if you're finally ready to apologize for this thread?