The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

In a provocative new post entitled "Some controversial topics," Sic et Non has announced a new level of warfare being directed at Rodney Meldrum ands fellow "Heartlanders." The Editor in Chief writes:

I’m sorry to see contention among members of the Church — especially when that contention centers on what is, after all, an issue of at most secondary importance. I’ve been on the receiving end of “Heartlander” attacks, both public and private, some of them remarkably nasty and abusive, for quite some time.


What's he "sorry" about, you might ask? In fact, it's a recent blog posting from Stephen Smoot, who has seized upon a posting to the FIRM Foundation's Facebook page. Smoot takes issue with the fact that the "Mesoamerican model" has been described as "apostate."

So, to summarize: "Sic et Non" is "sorry" that S. Smoot is upset over the FIRM Foundation's labeling of their (the Mopologists') pet theory (the LGT) as "apostate." What is the response, then? See for yourself:

DCP / SeN wrote:So, in that sense, I’m not displeased to see that certain members of the Church (I don’t know who they are; I don’t even have a hunch or a suspicion) have begun to respond to similar attacks. Here are some examples of such responses:


You really must check them out for yourself, but in short: the links are to a rather low-rent looking blog called "NevilleNevilleLand," and whose avowed purpose is as follows:

Peter, of NevilleNevilleLand wrote:This is the first in (what I expect to be) a series of critical examinations of the arguments of Jonathan Neville.

Brother Neville is the prolific author of at least twelve books and over sixty blogs (!), most of which expound his theories on the the Book of Mormon.


Though Peter hastens to add, at the end of the entry, that:

I wish to clarify that I hold no animosity toward Jonathan Neville; I merely wish to demonstrate that his one-note zeal for his theories has caused him to embrace ideas and conclusions that are not warranted by evidence and clear thinking.

—Peter


This is getting awfully murky, isn't it? We've got the presumably serious Dr. Peterson announcing that it "saddens" him when Latter-day Saints are adversarial towards one another, but, hey: he understands it because they (the Heartlanders) have been "nasty" towards him, so now he's glad to see people--including "Peter" (or, rather, someone pretending to be Peter Pan), the proprietor of "NevilleNevilleLand"--"have begun to respond to similar attacks." Huh? I see no signs on "NevilleNevilleLand" that Neville or any of the other heartlanders was "nasty" towards Peter. Peter himself insists that his blog of criticisms against Neville were spurred on by Neville's "one-note zeal." (Peterson provides five separate links to "NevilleNevilleLand." I cannot for the life of me figure out why they are zeroing in so aggressively on Neville...Any guesses?)

Anyways, it's worth remembering what set this whole thing off--i.e., Smoot was enraged that the FIRM Foundation would call the Mesoamerican model "apostate." Check out the way that "Sic et Non" wraps up this discussion:

I certainly don’t accuse all “Heartlanders” of being abusive and personally insulting — although I disagree with their views on the geography of the Book of Mormon, I would never for a moment dispute the fact that many if not most of them are sincere believers and kind people — but I do genuinely worry about advocacy of the “Heartland” geographical model potentially turning into a kind of schismatic cult.


Ok, then--lesson learned. Next time, FIRM just needs to refer to the Mopologists as a "schismatic cult." Problem solved!
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _Gadianton »

well now DCP can respond to the heartlanders with proof that the Book of Mormon is mesoamerican to the tune of 10^ 132 as a lower bound. that should settle that. LOL!

It's odd that he'd worry about them becoming a schism and cult, I assume that's just an insult as you suggest, as if they really did become a schism they would be ex'd and problem solved, it would be proven that the Heartlanders were the apostate ones all along.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_lostindc
_Emeritus
Posts: 2380
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _lostindc »

Wow, talk about fire in the hole.

I want to address the bomb DCP dropped,
...I do genuinely worry about advocacy of the “Heartland” geographical model potentially turning into a kind of schismatic cult.

Why is DCP attempting to claim that those believing in the Heartland model are potentially turning into a cult? We know that in the Mormon world this may mean an apostate group that can't be trusted. DCP could very much damage the lives of the TBMs that are working on the Heartland project by claiming those supporting the Heartland model are part of a schismatic cult.

What drives DCP to throw this bomb into a crowd of fellow believers?
Some speculate that the Heartland model is winning favor over any other Book of Mormon geography theory including the once prized Central American model.
Why is this an issue for DCP? There's many reasons, most notable, the loss of funding/income for DCP et al., the loss of authority for DCP et al. as now their research is questioned, and the potential for DCP et al. to be minimized.

What makes this even scarier for DCP is he is now at risk of experiencing friendly fire in the form of FAIR and similar other organizations turning their backs to DCP et al. (just like the Maxwell Institute did to DCP). IMHO, in this case, it's worse than the Maxwell Institute, because the orgs turning their back to DCP will be staffed by people he supported. This is all very scary. We will see a very vicious war over Mormon geography. We all know that DCP is ready for war, I don't know if the Heartland people can handle this type of war. Can you imagine the first hit piece authored by Gregory Smith and peer reviewed by DCP?
2019 = #100,000missionariesstrong
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _DrW »

Gadianton wrote:well now DCP can respond to the heartlanders with proof that the Book of Mormon is mesoamerican to the tune of 10^ 132 as a lower bound. that should settle that. LOL!

Dean Robbers,

You have no idea how much I would love to see such an assertion from DCP. As hard as it is to believe, I would put the chances of his eventually making this kind of claim - or at least citing the Dale & Dale 'Greatest Guesser' paper as evidence in support of the LGT - in the range of 0.2 to even. (Talk about your LOL!.)
Last edited by Guest on Wed May 15, 2019 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Philo Sofee
_Emeritus
Posts: 6660
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:04 am

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _Philo Sofee »

DrW wrote:
Gadianton wrote:well now DCP can respond to the heartlanders with proof that the Book of Mormon is mesoamerican to the tune of 10^ 132 as a lower bound. that should settle that. LOL!

Dean Robbers,

You have no idea how much I would love to see such an assertion from DCP. As hard as it is to believe, I would put the chances of his eventually making such a claim - or at least citing the Dale & Dale 'Greatest Guesser' paper as evidence in support of the LGT - in the range of 0.2 to even. (Talk about your LOL!.)


:lol: :lol: :lol: Perrrrrrfect!
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _Lemmie »

DrW wrote:
Gadianton wrote:well now DCP can respond to the heartlanders with proof that the Book of Mormon is mesoamerican to the tune of 10^ 132 as a lower bound. that should settle that. LOL!

Dean Robbers,

You have no idea how much I would love to see such an assertion from DCP. As hard as it is to believe, I would put the chances of his eventually making this kind of claim - or at least citing the Dale & Dale 'Greatest Guesser' paper as evidence in support of the LGT - in the range of 0.2 to even. (Talk about your LOL!.)

I'm sure that in a day or two, or maybe even three, DCP will have something important to say about it. Even significant.

I'm sure he is worried that the Dale's 10^132 advocacy of the “Mesoamerican ” geographical model will potentially turn into a kind of schismatic, Bayesian cult.
_DrW
_Emeritus
Posts: 7222
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 am

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _DrW »

Lemmie wrote:I'm sure that in a day or two, or maybe even three, DCP will have something important to say about it. Even significant.

I'm sure he is worried that the Dale's 10^132 advocacy of the “Mesoamerican ” geographical model will potentially turn into a kind of schismatic, Bayesian cult.

Hey Lemmie,

Your faith in DCP is admirable.

Such a cult would be schismatic, alright.

Not sure it would be Bayesian.

(Perhaps pseudo-Bayesian.)

They could form a "10^132 Club". (Sort of like the Pat Robertson "700 Club", but with a much bigger number.)
____________________________

More later down in the Spirit Paradise Forum on the real world damage that pseudoscience true believers posting nonsense of the internet can do to science, engineering and society in general. (The Greatest Guesser paper is but one rather insignificant example.)
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Physics Guy
_Emeritus
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:38 pm

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _Physics Guy »

All your Bayes are belong to us!
_lostindc
_Emeritus
Posts: 2380
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _lostindc »

DCP: If you're a believer and have a different viewpoint than mine on Book of Mormon geography then you're part of a schismatic cult.
2019 = #100,000missionariesstrong
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: The Mopologists' War with the Heartlanders is Heating Up

Post by _Lemmie »

Physics Guy wrote:All your Bayes are belong to us!

:lol: Awesome, PG.
Post Reply