John, release your finances

[_Kishkumen]

Wait, what? Is this really a thing?

- Doc

Allegedly. Years ago. Ahem.

[_Tator]

I'm pretty sure that Arizona was the location of the Open Stories Conference wherein John became aware that wife-swapping had taken place and then ceased having or hosting such conferences.

Wait, what? Is this really a thing?

- Doc

Perhaps Rosebud didn't get "swapped" like she wanted thus the woman is scorned.

[_Dr. Shades]

He ceased the Arizona conferences just because of a little adult action? I thought ex-mormon meant XXX experimentation and alcohol/drug filled excess.

For many, perhaps, but not for John Dehlin. He's all about strict marital fidelity and the faithful observance of one's marriage vows, so he didn't want any part of facilitating any violations thereof.

[_Equality]

That said, it would be a lot nicer for me if I could do this Dehlin job without all the Dehlin fans insulting me.

Would it help you to know that it's not just Dehlin fans who think your tactics here are not helpful to whatever you suppose your cause to be. I think anyone who is familiar with my own posting history here on John Dehlin threads can vouch for my "John Dehlin critic bona fides." No one would mistake me for a "Dehlin fan," that's for sure.

So maybe you will take some advice from someone who was initially sympathetic to your point of view: your posts here, especially the one that launched this thread, are not helping your cause, if your cause is to negatively affect the public's perception of John Dehlin. Indeed, your posts are having the opposite effect. Nothing John Dehlin has said or done himself could make me, one of his harshest critics, more likely to re-evaluate my own negative perceptions of him in a favorable direction than your posts here have done. In other words, you are actually doing PR work *FOR* Dehlin, not against him.

You're making someone like me feel a little sorry for the guy. I didn't know that was possible. So, congratulations?

[_Lemmie]

He ceased the Arizona conferences just because of a little adult action? I thought ex-mormon meant XXX experimentation and alcohol/drug filled excess.

For many, perhaps, but not for John Dehlin. He's all about strict marital fidelity and the faithful observance of one's marriage vows, so he didn't want any part of facilitating any violations thereof.

Interesting. Rosebud has intimated multiple times that that is not true, in multiple threads and multiple posts, over many years. Of course, she has given no proof.

[_lostindc]

Jason, outside of what is legally okay with the information you're provided in this thread, are you cool with a double salary jump in a year? Could the foundation recruit better talent to replace John at that level of salary?

In the past several years, I've worked with branding of non-profits and FPs and I would call Dehlin's behavior shady or even greedy. Maybe I am just privy to complaints and issues others had with Open Stories, but whatever. I could give a ____. It's sad how many Mormons/ex/NOMs/etc follow and even pay Dehlin. This shows how limited content creation is within the exmo world. The dude is a goof. He lacks ownership of why things broke down in his cult, but that's pretty typical in the Mormon community. We lack ownership in the results of our lives, but that's a different conversation.

Well of course there are the legal issues and then there are potential ethical issues. Would I object to John jumping from $109k in 2018 salary to $250k for 2019? My answer would be it depends. How successful was he in furthering the mission of Open Stories Foundation? How successful was he in increasing donations to the Open Stories Foundation and by how much did they increase? Certainly it would cause me to ask these questions before I could feel good about such a large increase. So it is not cut and dry. And sure, could Open Stories Foundation find other talent? Maybe.

As for the other stuff you say about John I cannot opine. I have heard snippets of such things for quite some time. I have only once attended a Mormon Stories event and that was at Greg Price's home in Maryland. That was more then 12 years ago. I met John there. I had emailed him some before that as I was going through my own faith transition and found him helpful. So it was nice to meet him. I also wanted to meet Greg Price. It was a fund day and I met a lot of great people some of whom I have stayed in touch with through Facebook. But I had no desire to be start a local Mormon Stories support group nor get substantially involved in something like that. I have even less desire to do so now. Mormonism still plays a large roll in my life but less that it has and in different ways. But I don't want to be part of a personality cult. I have not stayed in touch with John but I do listen to his podcasts when I see one that interests me. And I toss a couple hundred of bucks to the Open Stories Foundation annually. Same with RFM. Same with Sam Harris whose podcasts I enjoy.

If I were in Salt Lake and had some time I might go to lunch with John. But it would be after time with my brothers, a few cousins, a few old friends and so on. And with that list I would not likely have the time.

Hope this makes sense.

I missed this post. Are you or were you in Greg's stake? I used to be in Greg's stake. I've been to some of Greg's events. We might know each other, lol. I've since moved from DC.

[_Lemmie]

Arizona is significant because of the future, not the past.

I don’t think so. I think it represents a regret of yours that has been discussed before. A poster named Goldenbrass commented about it in 2018, as well as giving some insight into your reasons for using this board, a board you regularly define as being beneath you:

If Rosebud had filed her paperwork in Arizona where according to the letter firing her Open Stories Foundation is based she would only be required to show there were two employees which could be easily shown. I'm not sure why she waited until the last possible moment and then filed it in a place where she had no chance of it even being listened to. I also don't know why she didn't sue him. She seems to claim that she did it so that she could post her account of what happened for historians, but I doubt any historian is going to be interested enough when we are all dead to even look for it. She also claims that she never had any intention of actually pursuing it and doesn't have any desire to now either.

From Rosebud's responses on this board she's said she doesn't care what anyone thinks about her claims, she doesn't care how she comes across and doesn't really want to actually explain anything but that she is posting here as a way of communicating with Dehlin. For that reason alone I'm not planning to read or respond to anymore of these threads. The crossed wires seem to come from these rants that aren't meant for anyone but Dehlin while everyone else is just left frustrated and confused it's sad because I think people do genuinely want to help, but it is what it is. I can see why she might decide to passive aggressively rant given what she claims happened to her and it does seem that Dehlin is no better and is doing the same in tweeting about needing a good defamation lawyer. If I knew two friends using social media passive aggressively like this I would tell them to get a room, but given the history that would be a very bad idea.

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 5#p1121205

[_Kishkumen]

This board is probably used for two reasons:

1. Dehlin posts here on occasion.

2. It is easy to link to threads here.

[_Kishkumen]

As a coda to the thread up to this point, I thought I would note the rich irony in the fact that the MoSto episode (1201) directly before the one Rosebud linked to in this thread (1202) was concerned, to no small degree, with the problem of fellow leave-takers attacking the professional activists. I guess this is a thing. Chris Shelton ends up having to do some of the same things that John Dehlin is sometimes criticized for—such as blocking people on social media—because dealing with obsessive carpers gets really, really exhausting. Rosebud is not the lone obsessive attacking a leave-taking activist. It’s a phenomenon!

[Guest]

Oh goodie...another Rosebud thread...

Rosebud, Why does it matter to you what John Dehlin earns? Who gives a F*** . Just like every American has the opportunity to do, I hope yhe's getting as much of the pie as he can. Whether it is $1.00 or a $1,000,000 why the F*** do you care.

His income is set by the board of the 501(c) that he works for. Unless you are a contributor to Mormon Stories, (which I rather doubt you are) why do you give a damn?

On the knowledge that I am sounding like a broken record...I again for the um teenth time, I again suggest that you..."Move On"