Stem wrote:I don't know tax law so I stayed away from tax exemption the past couple weeks arguing with dr person and co. This was my basic point, the church it's a large corporation and as such is intent on making money. When it builds ward houses or temples its doing so with the bottom line in mind. When it builds it gets more donations. If it stopped building it would lose financial growth and it would lose or start to lose the large base. The membership needs growth or the appearance of it to maximize its financial situation.
According to this guy all money taken in as donations that is left after operation costs goes to business ventures to make more money. Tax exemption for that is a big old racket if ever there was one. Everyone should care beyond actual donors because if he's right a100 billion plus corporation paying taxes on 1 million is hurting us all.
Well, I can tell you that Prof. Phil Hackney does know this area of the law quite well, and, judging by his quotes in the article, the LDS Church may have a problem with Ensign Peak.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Stem wrote:I don't know tax law so I stayed away from tax exemption the past couple weeks arguing with dr person and co. This was my basic point, the church it's a large corporation and as such is intent on making money. When it builds ward houses or temples its doing so with the bottom line in mind. When it builds it gets more donations. If it stopped building it would lose financial growth and it would lose or start to lose the large base. The membership needs growth or the appearance of it to maximize its financial situation.
According to this guy all money taken in as donations that is left after operation costs goes to business ventures to make more money. Tax exemption for that is a big old racket if ever there was one. Everyone should care beyond actual donors because if he's right a100 billion plus corporation paying taxes on 1 million is hurting us all.
Well, I can tell you that Prof. Phil Hackney does know this area of the law quite well, and, judging by his quotes in the article, the LDS Church may have a problem with Ensign Peak.
I wouldn't be surprised if an internal "purge" of some kind is underway. I think you are right that this will amount to little more than a slap on the wrist for the Church. Strings will be pulled; phone calls will be made, etc. But this will most likely get swept under the rug.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, well. Isn't this interesting? Remember how, on "SeN", we were just treated to a--what, eleven- or twelve-part "series" about Church finances? And how everything the Church as been doing is justifiable? So, was that just coincidence, or was it to pre-empt what he knew was coming down the tubes?
If so it sure seems to me he did the church no favors. All he ended up doing was pointing out the church is a large corporation intent in making money so jesus's great work won't get frustrated.
Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, well. Isn't this interesting? Remember how, on "SeN", we were just treated to a--what, eleven- or twelve-part "series" about Church finances? And how everything the Church as been doing is justifiable? So, was that just coincidence, or was it to pre-empt what he knew was coming down the tubes?
The good Dr. of Muslim studies pre-empted. I hope they get exposed for the money worshipers they are.
The Q12/FP, my guess, wants $1 Trillion in investments and savings by 2050. I'm sure the poor Africans want to continue to contribute to that goal, because, they too want to be able to rejoice in knowing that the Lord is bigger than Amazon or other multinationals. I mean think of how glorious and beautiful those investment accounts will be when they hit $1 Trillion. It'll be better than anything imaginable.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, well. Isn't this interesting? Remember how, on "SeN", we were just treated to a--what, eleven- or twelve-part "series" about Church finances? And how everything the Church as been doing is justifiable? So, was that just coincidence, or was it to pre-empt what he knew was coming down the tubes?
If so it sure seems to me he did the church no favors. All he ended up doing was pointing out the church is a large corporation intent in making money so jesus's great work won't get frustrated.
I hope they're working this in as a plot point for the "Witness" movie.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, well. Isn't this interesting? Remember how, on "SeN", we were just treated to a--what, eleven- or twelve-part "series" about Church finances? And how everything the Church as been doing is justifiable? So, was that just coincidence, or was it to pre-empt what he knew was coming down the tubes?
The good Dr. of Muslim studies pre-empted. I hope they get exposed for the money worshipers they are.
The Q12/FP, my guess, wants $1 Trillion in investments and savings by 2050. I'm sure the poor Africans want to continue to contribute to that goal, because, they too want to be able to rejoice in knowing that the Lord is bigger than Amazon or other multinationals. I mean think of how glorious and beautiful those investment accounts will be when they hit $1 Trillion. It'll be better than anything imaginable.
What I have to wonder is about the timeline of all of this. The article has a top executive talking about how this accumulation is meant to be for the Second Coming. So, okay: let's take that remark at face value. When are they predicting that Christ is going to come back? Is it 2050--just to rely on the figure you mention? And so they want $1 trillion....why, exactly? We all know what the scriptures say about what's going to happen with Christ returns: it's not going to be pretty--just ask your aunt in Parowan, who recently came home with a flyer from Relief Society that told her about how she needs to get cracking on building that solar oven, because things are going to be tough as hell during the latter days. So, if people are really going to have to rough it like that--boiling their water just to survive, and cooking hardtack in solar ovens and that kind of thing: using rocks to grind up the bags of wheat that they socked away--then what is the $1 trillion for? Is it just evidence to Jesus and Heavenly Father that Church leaders were working extra hard?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Defrauding charities? Evading taxes? Amassing huge amounts of wealth for selfish purposes? Priestcraft is called "good business" in 2020 Trumptown USA. The garden is in full bloom.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
I feel a new revelation coming. The Lord commands his church to have the world's biggest hedge fund. Let there be rejoicing and compound interest and volunteer member work hours in church related businesses and buildings. The laborer in the vineyard shall be worthy of his volunteer work. For the Lord's sacred funds shall increase like a stone cut out of the mountain with no hands, that shall roll forth until it owns the whole world.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Doctor Scratch wrote:What I have to wonder is about the timeline of all of this. The article has a top executive talking about how this accumulation is meant to be for the Second Coming. So, okay: let's take that remark at face value. When are they predicting that Christ is going to come back? Is it 2050--just to rely on the figure you mention? And so they want $1 trillion....why, exactly? We all know what the scriptures say about what's going to happen with Christ returns: it's not going to be pretty--just ask your aunt in Parowan, who recently came home with a flyer from Relief Society that told her about how she needs to get cracking on building that solar oven, because things are going to be tough as hell during the latter days. So, if people are really going to have to rough it like that--boiling their water just to survive, and cooking hardtack in solar ovens and that kind of thing: using rocks to grind up the bags of wheat that they socked away--then what is the $1 trillion for? Is it just evidence to Jesus and Heavenly Father that Church leaders were working extra hard?
What, indeed. They are caught up in their gain for gaining sake. Tax it or force some actual charity work. However, slaps on the wrist and some strategic contributions to the right fellows is what will probably happen. It's funny, in law school, the joke was to demand to see church finances and if the judge granted the discovery request, the church would quickly settle with an ironclad nda.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
I wonder how many great and spacious buildings can be built with $100 billion dollars?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."