Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on finance

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_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _I have a question »

Jana Riess, 3rd December...
When I give to my church, I check the general boxes where I’m trying to designate the money to go, but a disclaimer at the bottom tells me that even though I might have wanted my donation to help, say, the church’s fast offering fund to help the poor, the church reserves the right to use it wherever it sees fit.

Which would be fine ... if I knew anything about where that was.

https://religionnews.com/2019/12/03/i-j ... -about-it/
Well Jana, you know now...
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Meadowchik
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _Meadowchik »

I have a question wrote:Jana Riess, 3rd December...
When I give to my church, I check the general boxes where I’m trying to designate the money to go, but a disclaimer at the bottom tells me that even though I might have wanted my donation to help, say, the church’s fast offering fund to help the poor, the church reserves the right to use it wherever it sees fit.

Which would be fine ... if I knew anything about where that was.

https://religionnews.com/2019/12/03/i-j ... -about-it/
Well Jana, you know now...


We have the reasonable expectation that it will be used for charitable aims. There were many times when I was obliged to turn down requests for financial help but reassured myself that I was already helping others through my tithes.

I have a friend in Indiana who for several years now has spearheaded a multiple campaigns against hunger, homelessness, and police brutality. She's created a website for IMPD police transparency, a No Questions Asked Food pantry, and help multiple fundraisers to help people in tight spots stay off the streets or find shelter, or meet other urgent needs. She regularly posts receipts and constantly gives updates on donations to be transparent herself, and relies on volunteers and donations.

If only the church could follow her kind of example.
_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _I have a question »

Elder Andersen said the significance of the meeting with Vice President Mohadi was to “express to him our desire to help improve Zimbabwe.” He noted that Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.
“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.co.zw/articl ... es-support

Mr Anderson is a bare faced liar.

*I lifted this from another thread, the link no longer goes to the article. Memory hole? It appears the Church has erased the article. No wonder.

Proof it existed (sunstoned posted it)
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/718 ... A0/page/2/

The thread where it was posted on here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51537&p=1179030&hilit=Anderson+not+a+wealthy+people#p1179030
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _I have a question »

Nielsen’s complaint further alleges that between 2009 and 2014, Ensign pumped $1.4 billion in several installments into the City Creek Center, a shopping mall in downtown Salt Lake City featuring a retractable roof. The mall, partly owned by the church, had also been hit by the financial crisis.

Amid complaints from members about the church venturing into retail, church leaders have repeatedly made assurances over several years that no money from tithes would be spent on developing the mall, a joint venture with the Taubman real estate group.

Let’s. Go. Shopping.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _I have a question »

Letter to an IRS Director (Full) https://youtu.be/KDlFZF3RyhE via @YouTube
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

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Citing an internal presentation that he includes as an exhibit, Nielsen alleges that in 2009, Ensign spent funds on rescuing the insurance firm, Beneficial Life, which was suffering from its exposure to mortgage-backed securities amid the financial crisis.
At the time, a church-owned newspaper reported that a different commercial church company, Deseret Management, had injected $594 million into Beneficial Life to make up its deficit. Mark Willes, Deseret Management’s president and chief executive, was reported to have said that no tithing money was used in the transaction.
Yet the internal presentation supplied to the IRS by Nielsen refers to a $600 million “withdrawal” from Ensign to Beneficial Life in 2009, citing a page from an Ensign slide presentation entitled “Framework and Exposures” and dated March 2013. Nielsen said the funds were taken specifically from the Ensign account that receives surplus tithing. Nielsen said the transfer was not treated as a loan and was not recorded as an investment on Ensign’s balance sheet.

The widows mite is not in safe hands.

"Beneficial is and will remain well capitalized and fully able to meet its obligations to current policyholders," said Mark Willes, Deseret Management's president and chief executive officer. "However, like virtually all life insurers, Beneficial has been impacted by the financial-market meltdown.

"When you combine our lack of scale with the economic impact of the market meltdown, it becomes clear that the limited economic opportunity does not justify the risk of potential future losses."

Kent Cannon, Beneficial's chief executive officer, told the Deseret News that the company would continue to serve its existing policyholders and "do right by our employees and agents, many of whom have ties with Beneficial going back generations."

"This is clearly a very difficult thing to deal with," he said. "The decision to downsize was not easy, and we are committed to a responsible and orderly process."

Founded in 1905 to help protect widows and orphans, Beneficial is the oldest life-insurance company headquartered in the Intermountain West, according to the company's Web site.

Willes told the Deseret News that the company would stop accepting applications for new policies Aug. 31.

He said Beneficial has seen its investment portfolio decline significantly due to its exposure to mortgage-backed and other structured securities, resulting in losses of $600 million over the past two years. Deseret Management had to infuse $594 million into Beneficial to make up the deficit, but at no time did it use funds provided by LDS tithes, Willes noted.

https://www.deseret.com/2009/6/16/20323 ... -utah-jobs

Deseret Management is a for-profit operating company owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The corporation oversees Beneficial Financial Group, media company Bonneville International Corp., Deseret Book Co., Deseret News Publishing Co., Hawaii Reserves Inc., Temple Square Hospitality Corp. and Zions Securities Corp.

If the facts provided by the whistleblower are correct, the Church and its auditors have some explaining to do...
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _I have a question »

Dear Brethren: Directed by revelation, as recorded in section 120 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Council on the Disposition of the Tithes—composed of the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and the Presiding Bishopric—authorizes the expenditure of Church funds. Church entities disburse funds in accordance with approved budgets, policies, and procedures.

Church Auditing, which consists of credentialed professionals and is independent of all other Church departments, has responsibility to perform audits for the purpose of providing reasonable assurance regarding contributions received, expenditures made, and safeguarding of Church assets.

Based upon audits performed, Church Auditing is of the opinion that, in all material respects, contributions received, expenditures made, and assets of the Church for the year 2018 have been recorded and administered in accordance with approved Church budgets, policies, and accounting practices. The Church follows the practices taught to its members of living within a budget, avoiding debt, and saving against a time of need.

Respectfully submitted,

Church Auditing Department

Kevin R. Jergensen

Managing Director

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

Who are those credentialed professionals employed by?
Is the Church auditing itself?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_I have a question
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _I have a question »

Is the Church auditing itself?
This is a unique opportunity to join the Church Auditing department and perform internal audits of Domestic and International Church operations.

The Church Auditing Department provides independent assurance regarding financial and operational matters, internal controls, and other assertions made by management in carrying out the mission of the Church.

RESPONSIBILITIES

Responsibilities include planning and conducting risk-based audits in order to provide the following services to Church organizations:

Express an opinion that financial information is presented in a fair and unbiased way.
Assure that the Church has complied with applicable laws and regulations.
Assure that Church policies and procedures are adequately documented and followed.
Assure that appropriate internal controls are functioning.
This person must be able to complete audit engagement tasks, including reports, as assigned. This position requires up to 20% international and domestic travel providing the opportunity to audit the worldwide operations of the Church.

QUALIFICATIONS

Licensed CPA
Requires a Bachelor's Degree in accounting, finance or other applicable education. Master's Degree preferred.
2 – 5 years national CPA firm experience (or equivalent)
Must be able to travel internationally up to 3-4 trips / year that last 1-2 wks per trip.
History of being a top performer in previous work
Strong analytical skills; excellent written communication and presentation skills
Fast moving, comfortable in a large organization, goal directed, and initiative and ability to explore.
Spanish language skills are preferred.
Ability to effectively operate in a team environment.
WORTHINESS QUALIFICATION

Must be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and currently temple worthy.

https://careersearch.churchofjesuschris ... earch.aspx

It certainly looks that way.
If the Church is being audited by a set of professionals over whom the Church has leverage because they are temple recommend holders, then the audit cannot be claimed as “independent”.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _Stem »

Happy to make some comparisons:

Net worth of Walmart 180 B

Net worth of Amazon 160 B

Net worth of Microsoft 760 B

Net worth of Apple 900 B

Networth of Saudi Aramco Somwhere just below 2 T

The LDS Church's investments in Ensign Peaks puts the Church at somewhere below Walmart. With its other businesses and investments? Perhaps somewhere above Walmart. Considering the Church builds its wealth on the back of maybe 5 million people world wide (40% activity, many of those children)? Walmart has approximately 40 million patrons a day (I guess we could say the Church has 5 million patrons a month giving it donations for comparison) to amass it's wealth.

I mean it pails in comparison to Saudi Aramco (the record holder), maybe, but it seems to hold up against most other large or conglomerate corporations in the world. Impressive, perhaps, but should we consider a small church organization who requires members give it money an impressive business entity based on its net worth?
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Re: Washington Post: Mormon Church has misled members on fin

Post by _Dr Moore »

Stem: all of those companies are externally audited and provide regulated public disclosures. Aramco maybe the most recent to do so, as it went public just this year.
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