https://www.huntington.org/joseph-smith ... k2nP7l_140
Anniversary of Smith's First Vision conference
No speakers such as Dan Vogel or Michael Quinn both experts on the FV. Probably funded by LDS church?
First Vision Conference 2020
-
_aussieguy55
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:22 pm
First Vision Conference 2020
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
-
_Philo Sofee
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 6660
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:04 am
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
Wouldn't it be interesting if the current prophet could attend and actually share HIS visions? Why does no one else have such grand visions as Joseph's putative one? Doesn't anyone wonder about that at all in Mormonism?
I love the opening registration and coffee......
I love the opening registration and coffee......
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
-
_DonBradley
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 6:58 am
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
The conference is put on by Huntington Library - one of the most prestigious academic libraries in the world.
Among the participants are noted Evangelical scholar Richard Mouw, Ann Taves - a noted naturalistic scholar on religion who has argued that Joseph Smith created and then sacralized his own plates, George Marsden - one of the most prominent historians of Evangelical Christianity and a long time professor at Notre Dame, Peter Blodgett - one of the Huntington's own scholars, and John H. Wigger - a historian of Methodism.
And, as Philo noted, the whole thing is kicked off with coffee!
Perhaps this could serve as a lesson in how one's biases lead to distorted interpretation of data? I look at this conference through ex-Mormon eyes, what pops out to me is the absence of my favored controversial/non-believing scholars on the topic, so I assume the whole thing is a product of institutional apologetics, ignoring everything in the conference description that flatly refutes that
Or one could just keep interpreting everything according to the same biased lens. After all, it worked so well with this one!
Don
Among the participants are noted Evangelical scholar Richard Mouw, Ann Taves - a noted naturalistic scholar on religion who has argued that Joseph Smith created and then sacralized his own plates, George Marsden - one of the most prominent historians of Evangelical Christianity and a long time professor at Notre Dame, Peter Blodgett - one of the Huntington's own scholars, and John H. Wigger - a historian of Methodism.
And, as Philo noted, the whole thing is kicked off with coffee!
Perhaps this could serve as a lesson in how one's biases lead to distorted interpretation of data? I look at this conference through ex-Mormon eyes, what pops out to me is the absence of my favored controversial/non-believing scholars on the topic, so I assume the whole thing is a product of institutional apologetics, ignoring everything in the conference description that flatly refutes that
Or one could just keep interpreting everything according to the same biased lens. After all, it worked so well with this one!
Don
-
_Fence Sitter
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
DonBradley wrote:Or one could just keep interpreting everything according to the same biased lens. After all, it worked so well with this one!
Don
The OP phrased his last sentence as a question, meaning he was unsure. The questions regarding Vogel and Quinn are valid given the topic and one should note that the poster is from another continent so perhaps not as familiar with the Huntington as others closer to the venue.
Maybe the lens some look through at critics sometimes does not work so well either.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
-
_DonBradley
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 1118
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 6:58 am
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
Fence Sitter wrote:DonBradley wrote:Or one could just keep interpreting everything according to the same biased lens. After all, it worked so well with this one!
Don
The OP phrased his last sentence as a question, meaning he was unsure. The questions regarding Vogel and Quinn are valid given the topic and one should note that the poster is from another continent so perhaps not as familiar with the Huntington as others closer to the venue.
Maybe the lens some look through at critics sometimes does not work so well either.
FS,
His reasoning was "No speakers such as Dan Vogel or Michael Quinn," therefore, "Probably funded by the LDS church." While it's good that he was less than certain about this--as he should have been, the reasoning he expresses falls for exactly the trap I described: the conference lacks the controversial (Quinn) and anti-LDS-truth-claim (Vogel) scholars with which he is familiar, it is therefore "probably" just institutional claptrap.
Don
-
_slskipper
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:39 am
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
My objection is this: being academics, they are interested in intellectual explorations of the phenomenon. They will theorize, they will analyze, they will exegesis-ize. But I bet not a one of them will suggest that he made it all up because he was a con man who wanted to bamboozle people for money and sex.
-
_Fence Sitter
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
Don,
I really can't speak for Aussieguy but not everyone knows Taves, Mardsen, Blodgett or Wigger or the reputation of the Huntington. For the less informed who read the conference schedule there is a lot of LDS scholars listed. An assumption that this might of been funded by the church, especially given the upcoming focus next year by the church on the 1st Vision, is not necessarily one that is a critical observation.
But I suppose I too have a different lens.
Obviously there will be those who see this as purely a chance to aim shots at the church, I just don't see it in the OP.
I enjoy your work Don.
I really can't speak for Aussieguy but not everyone knows Taves, Mardsen, Blodgett or Wigger or the reputation of the Huntington. For the less informed who read the conference schedule there is a lot of LDS scholars listed. An assumption that this might of been funded by the church, especially given the upcoming focus next year by the church on the 1st Vision, is not necessarily one that is a critical observation.
But I suppose I too have a different lens.
Obviously there will be those who see this as purely a chance to aim shots at the church, I just don't see it in the OP.
I enjoy your work Don.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
Philo Sofee wrote:I love the opening registration and coffee......
At BYU, this would immediately be changed to 8:30 a.m. - Registration & Cookies
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
-
_aussieguy55
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:22 pm
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
I noticed that Bushman is one of the speakers. In RSR p. 570 ft 30 he makes a statement that the family possibly "did not join (PC) until later revivals in 1824." Was Smith not persecuted as a result of his 1820 story and if so his family must have heard the story. Smith Snr refused to join because a preacher had said Alvin who died in 1823 had gone to hell. Did Lucy Mack Smith's history manuscript contain the FV account or was it just added in the printing? What then do you make of the Oliver Cowdery history in the Messenger & Advocate? Did Smith doubt a supreme being existed?
When Milton Backman wrote his book of the FV he omitted Walter's Dialogue Spring 1969 paper in his bibliography. I noticed the same thing in Bushman( RSR.) Walters was getting impatient with a decision by Dialogue to accept his paper and he had it published more abbreviated form in the Bulletin of the Evangelical Theological Society. The round table which Walters had with Bushman in Dialogue spring 1969 is not mentioned in RSR while the more abbreviated version is mentioned. RSR p.714. The reason for this perhaps I suspect is a conversation I had with an American couple. I had started subscribing to Dialogue and I asked them what they thought the GAs opinion would be of Dialogue The husband said they heard the GAs were not happy with the response by a LDS historian to a paper by a Presbyterian pastor. Don't you think it is strange that both historians omitted the Dialogue Spring 1969 paper? Walter's research must have been important as both Vogel and Quinn made their way to Marissa Illinois where Walters shared his research with them. That is why I thought at least one should have been invited. I am just an amateur observer but to me it is a confused mess.
When Milton Backman wrote his book of the FV he omitted Walter's Dialogue Spring 1969 paper in his bibliography. I noticed the same thing in Bushman( RSR.) Walters was getting impatient with a decision by Dialogue to accept his paper and he had it published more abbreviated form in the Bulletin of the Evangelical Theological Society. The round table which Walters had with Bushman in Dialogue spring 1969 is not mentioned in RSR while the more abbreviated version is mentioned. RSR p.714. The reason for this perhaps I suspect is a conversation I had with an American couple. I had started subscribing to Dialogue and I asked them what they thought the GAs opinion would be of Dialogue The husband said they heard the GAs were not happy with the response by a LDS historian to a paper by a Presbyterian pastor. Don't you think it is strange that both historians omitted the Dialogue Spring 1969 paper? Walter's research must have been important as both Vogel and Quinn made their way to Marissa Illinois where Walters shared his research with them. That is why I thought at least one should have been invited. I am just an amateur observer but to me it is a confused mess.
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
-
_Fence Sitter
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 8862
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm
Re: First Vision Conference 2020
Perhaps Vogel and or Quinn were invited but chose to or could not participate.
Regardless it looks like a very interesting conference.
Regardless it looks like a very interesting conference.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."