While the coronaviris is well evolved for attacking the senior leaders of the church, I think a far greater threat to the church is the fact that COVID 19 is going to give a lot of members a lot of time to think. And thinking for yourself is the first step on the way out the door.
We all lead busy lives and busy people rarely have time to reflect and ponder about things. But when you are confined to your home and missing church meetings, time is something you have in abundance.
Over the years I have observed that a common feature in most people's exit narrative was a major life event that resulted in the person having a lot more thinking time. Several days ago I told a friend that I believed the pandemic would lead to a significant increase in the number of people leaving the church. I didn't expect my prediction to be fulfilled this quickly but take a look at this comment from the exmormon reddit page.
Honestly it's just the last straw- I'm really busy normally and now I'm just sitting around, trying to establish some kind of routine, and thinking about life. I've read up about the church enough to know what I know. Thinking about it critically just kinda, well, did me in.
I think we are going to see a lot more of these types of posts.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal." "Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy, unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama
Thinking--and thus time to think--is the enemy of the LDS church.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
Thinking is the bane of any authoritarian. In this case, the church magicians are constantly trying to focus attention on anything other than the man behind the curtain. I think Dr. Southerton may be onto something here. What does the church actually do for the individual or family? It adds on unnecessary guilt for mistakes everyone makes. It asks members to do busy work in temples while taking loyalty oaths. Meetings are monotonous and without purpose. Celebrating a murder every week because God supposedly didn't have the power to forgive is another waste of time. Then, looking at the church history critically, one has to come to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was making it up as he went along, always trying to come up with something new or something to hide his real interests in the other sex.
Perhaps time alone will help people realize that while getting together with neighbors is great and community is important, it can be found elsewhere, outside of organized religion? Maybe having to deal with a cold authoritarian organization that is hyper-focused on obedience to it for no other reason than obedience for obedience sake isn't the way to live one's life? Time to leave the abusive parent?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Interesting, Simon. I hadn’t thought of that as a side effect.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Seems to me that people would cling even more tightly to religion during any pandemic. Of course, if people deliberately avoid one another during this time, that dynamic of seeking solace within the Church might change.
Good points. I think world events like this can cause people to consider how important the church really is in their lives. To some it may strengthen their testimony, but others may start to think the church is really insignificant, and has nothing special to offer the world. Yesterday people were calling their ministering families to inform them they were allowed to administer the sacrament in their home if a priesthood holder was available, and to make sure special arrangements were made to ensure everyone was able to partake of the sacrament. They needed to report numbers back to the bishop. To me, it seemed like such a silly thing to worry about. But it is the most important thing that is done every sunday, so I can understand why the church is scrambling to make sure it gets done. But if a TBM happens to see it the same way I do, even for a split second before correcting themselves, that might dent their armor a bit.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
moksha wrote:Seems to me that people would cling even more tightly to religion during any pandemic. Of course, if people deliberately avoid one another during this time, that dynamic of seeking solace within the Church might change.
I agree the majority of members will band together. But as we all know, sitting on the back pew in every ward are people with heavy shelves. Several months of space to think more deeply about these shelf items is a very dangerous thing for the church. The person I quoted above was exactly that type of person. Lots of questions but never enough time to ponder and resolve them.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal." "Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy, unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama
DarkHelmet wrote:Yesterday people were calling their ministering families to inform them they were allowed to administer the sacrament in their home if a priesthood holder was available, and to make sure special arrangements were made to ensure everyone was able to partake of the sacrament. They needed to report numbers back to the bishop.
In adjacent stakes in Sydney the members have been given conflicting "inspired" council from the Stake Presidents. One is instructing they only take the sacrament once a month from approved P'hood holders. The other is saying all worthy P'hood holders can give the sacrament each week. Both inspired by the same God? Sure.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal." "Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy, unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama
Res Ipsa wrote:Interesting, Simon. I hadn’t thought of that as a side effect.
This reminded me of something that was said by a senior leader in a Stake meeting I attended two decades ago. They observed that after senior leaders like bishops and stake presidents are released it is crucial they are given another responsible calling. They had noticed it was common for leaders released from heavy callings to go inactive if they were not immediately given another calling.
This was well before the Internet, when people were largely unaware of the myriad of church issues. This problem must be a lot worse these days given the exposure senior leaders have to members dealing with these issues.
It will be interesting to see the effect of the pandemic on exmormon reddit membership.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal." "Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy, unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama
Growing up there were several occasions where I heard the analogy of the hot coals from the leaders. When the coals are in a heap they all stay hot, but when spread out they die.
If these leaders were correct, then cancelling church for a few weeks should destroy testimonies like crazy. Let's home they were right for once, but they were probably even wrong about that.
I'd expect social media has all but taken over and church has become a formality, but it would be really interesting if that's wrong, and something about physically gathering with other members keeps them in the harness.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.