How can the Church lose $8 billion of member donations?

[_I have a question]

The Church and it’s stock market losses

Recently it has been widely reported that the Church suffered losses of $8 billion to its secret slush funds held with Ensign Peak Associates. Ensign Peak is owned and managed by the Church, under the auspices of the Presiding Bishopric who take their marching orders from the First Presidency.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ largest investment fund plunged by 21% in the first quarter of 2020 as stock managers reallocated the multibillion-dollar portfolio amid the slumping coronavirus economy.
By comparison, the Dow Jones Industrial Average declined about 23% over the same time period.
Ensign Peak Advisors, the investment arm of the Salt Lake City-based faith, reported to federal regulators that the value of its stock holdings fell by $8.1 billion, to $29.7 billion, during that three-month span.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/05 ... lls-exxon/

One would expect hedge funds and Wall Street investors to win some and to lose some. With the best, luckiest, most patient (e.g Warren Buffet) to come out more ahead than most over time. In this regard, EPA losing $8 billion during the current crisis is not outwits the norms of the industry.

But shouldn’t it be?

We aren’t talking about your run of the mill stock broking firm, we are talking about an institution that claims to have special insight into future happenings received directly from God Himself. If EPA is investing on the back of a strategy guided by an all-knowing God, then EPA should be country miles ahead in performance compared to the likes of Warren Buffet. If EPA isn’t following a divinely produced investment strategy for the widows mite funds that (we now know) it holds - then that would surely be gross negligence and a mismanagement of the donated funds the Church is holding onto for…well…something rainier than the current global crisis.

Here’s the short version:
If EPA is following an investment strategy guided by God via His Prophets and Bankers, then they need to explain why God wanted them to lose $8 billion of member donations.
If EPA isn’t following an investment strategy guided by God via His Prophets and Bankers, then those Prophets and Bankers have been negligent with $8 billion of member donations.

If the Prophet cannot accurately foresee significant stock market movements, then why should anyone trust him to have special insight into anything?

[_Fence Sitter]

From a faithful standpoint they did not lose 8-29 billion of membership donations.




They lost 8-29 billion of God's money.
So if you are one of the faithful who have defended the need for God to have all that money, you must be concerned He is going to be angry at losing so much of it. Maybe it is time to change how you think about the prophet profit.

[_Dr Exiled]

These guys are just ordinary men trying to trick everyone into believing that they are extraordinary while taking people's money. Hence, Nelson's magic pen and making scheduling changes into "revelation" and the secrecy surrounding EPA money pile. But rest assured, the Fed has pumped so much into the market that the EPA will recoup the above losses, if it hasn't already.

[_Shulem]

A religion with that much money is dangerous. I see it as a threat to democracy and government in general. Religion that has so much money can wield it to influence government and law. This may not be the case right now but it remains to be seen. The Mormon Church could become a serious threat in overthrowing elements of our democracy. Ultimately the Church wants Christ to come back and kill the wicked (anti-Mormons) and set up a world government where the prophet rules.

[_Dr Moore]

To me, the problem is the size of EPA's financial assets, the secrecy, and the sterility of those funds for so many years (including to present day), but I am not concerned with the volatility of the investments.

Every fund that invests in stocks can be characterized by its volatility. Looking at dollar volatility over any cherry-picked short-term time period is barking up the wrong tree, in my opinion, especially for a buy-and-hold strategy with high portfolio standards and a long-term horizon.

[_huckelberry]

Though I agree with Dr. Moore I find it hard not to add the fallowing. I thought people were supposed to have free will and make responsible decision not expecting God to direct their stock investments.(and not complaining when God does not play the market for you)

[_SuperDell]

The rain falls on the just and the un-just.
This is God's way of humbling the Brethren - and they really, really need it.

[_Philo Sofee]

The rain falls on the just and the un-just.
This is God's way of humbling the Brethren - and they really, really need it.

God has failed for 250 years to ever humble the brethren... they are all Elohim Jr.'s, so there is no need for humility or apologies, since there is never any wrong involved in anything they say or do. :rolleyes:

[_Philo Sofee]

The rain falls on the just and the un-just.
This is God's way of humbling the Brethren - and they really, really need it.

God has failed for 250 years to ever humble the brethren... they are all Elohim Jr.'s, so there is no need for humility or apologies, since there is never any wrong involved in anything they say or do. :rolleyes:

[_I have a question]

Over on Sic Et Non Peterson answers my questions

Some have derided Ensign Peak Advisors because, they say, the prophets who direct EPA should have a perfect investment record and their funds should never lose money. This is, of course, a disingenuous and silly criticism. Nobody has ever claimed prophetic inerrancy for the Church’s investors or investments.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... again.html

He seems to be saying that yes, Prophets are involved in the investment strategy, yes they are seeking divine guidance on investments, and yes, the Prophet (or God) is making mistakes. He's saying the Prophet makes mistakes to within a couple of percent of the mistakes of mere mortals operating without God's steering hand.

In fact, though, EPA has done reasonably well in a time of unprecedented and unpredictable market changes: While the Dow Jones Industrial average declined by 23%, for example, EPA’s managed funds declined by only 21%.

He's making the point, or trying to without saying as much, that God's hand explains the difference. Really?
The Dow Jones Industrial is a cherry picked metric that suits the point he wants to make.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA), Dow Jones, or simply the Dow (/ˈdaʊ/), is a stock market index that measures the stock performance of 30 large companies listed on stock exchanges in the United States. Although it is one of the most commonly followed equity indices, many consider the Dow to be an inadequate representation of the overall U.S. stock market compared to broader market indices such as the S&P 500 Index

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones ... al_Average
So let's use the S&P 500 Index instead...

Berkshire Hathaway’s stock is down 20% so far this year, compared to a 13% decline for the S&P 500.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeikleb ... 0a5d337fcf

So President Nelson, and his claimed divine guidance, is not only slightly behind Warren Buffet, he's miles behind the market average.