BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

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_Dr Moore
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BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Dr Moore »

This post and what it represents within the BYU academic community could be a more likely explanation for Deseret Book pulling John Gee's book, Saving Faith, from the shelves.

https://bycommonconsent.com/2020/08/23/ ... expertise/

In a rather poetical and ironic twist, Gee receives a scathing book review, and by a non-tenured professor no less.

Kevin Shafer, Associate Professor of Sociology at BYU, begins his brief essay with this quote by Dallin H. Oaks:
In October 2018, President Dallin H. Oaks cautioned that “expertise in one field should not be taken as expertise on truth in other subjects.”
Then, Shafer introduces Saving Faith and its author, "Egyptologist John Gee."
Professor Gee’s lack of expertise in these areas is may have led him to make errors that lead to problematic claims that are not born out by research.
Shafer doesn't belabor his points. He raises two problematic issues with Gee's book and explains why "they are not based in science or current church statements on sexuality." Ouch and double ouch.

The issues raised relate to hazardous interpretations of data related to child abuse victims and how childhood experiences contribute to adult perpetrators.

What Shafer points out is eerily similar to the Ritner rebuke about abuse of scholarship. Shafer takes issue with Gee's utilization of dubious research articles to support his assertions about causality between homosexuality and childhood trama -- specifically, that homosexuality can be caused by childhood abuse. One of Gee's cited sources (Mayer and McHugh) was based on a meta-analysis in which the authors actually clearly and definitively arrived at the OPPOSITE conclusion as Gee's interpretation, "“sexual abuse does not cause individuals to become gay, lesbian, or bisexual."

Shafer caps his concern about Gee's potentially harmful perpetuation of this false causality thus:
In contrast, Gee relies on a review by an unreputable source that is willfully misinterpreting scholarly findings.
Shafer also raises objection to Gee's approach to the assertion that "victims of sexual abuse deserve compassion and assistance. They also deserve special care because they are more likely to become sexual abusers of children." In short, the data is complicated and more rigorous studies with careful control groups actually appear to disprove the notion, finding "no relationship between victimization and abusing in American fathers." Shafer wants to avoid any minimization about "the evils of child abuse", but the concern Shafer raises is again the unintended consequences of perpetuating false sitgmas. In this case, because the false stigma is so strong and appears to discourage men from seeking the help they need.

Shafer closes by encouraging Gee to stay in his own swim lane:
Leave Social Science to the Social Scientists
When researchers fail to properly report nuance, make strong claims based on limited reading, and fail to acknowledge the shortcomings of social research, they can cause real harm. In this case, the marginalization of LGBTQ+ individuals can perpetuate the very abuses that Gee shows concern for, given that anti-LGBTQ+ bias appears to be a significant correlate of their victimization. Stigmatizing abuse victims may generate significant psychological, physical, social, and developmental harm. Perhaps we should take President Oaks’ advice to heart—both as scholars and readers.
Gee's academic record is reaping a poor harvest this month, but you know how the saying goes.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Shulem
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Re: BYU scholar tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Shulem »

sexual abuse does not cause individuals to become gay, lesbian, or bisexual
AND, sexual abuse does not cause individuals to become straight.

You are what you are because that is the way you are.

:mad:
_Kishkumen
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Kishkumen »

Thank you for sharing this, Dr. Moore. I am heartened by the thought that someone may have listened to Shafer's expertise and stopped the sale of a fundamentally flawed book by Deseret Book.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Analytics
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Analytics »

I somehow get the impression that this will just feed Gee's persecution complex.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

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_Shulem
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Shulem »

Analytics wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:10 pm
I somehow get the impression that this will just feed Gee's persecution complex.
Well, he's getting it from every side now! The chickens are coming home to roost. It appears the walls are closing in all around him. He made his bed and now he's lying in it. The question remains whether he will be able to save his own faith!

I think it's a good bet that the poor man is going to fall apart and have his own faith crisis before this is all over.

:lol:
_Kishkumen
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Kishkumen »

Analytics wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:10 pm
I somehow get the impression that this will just feed Gee's persecution complex.
Shrug. It's not like his persecution complex has gotten him anywhere.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Dr. Moore,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
What Shafer points out is eerily similar to the Ritner rebuke about abuse of scholarship. Shafer takes issue with Gee's utilization of dubious research articles to support his assertions about causality between homosexuality and childhood trama -- specifically, that homosexuality can be caused by childhood abuse. One of Gee's cited sources (Mayer and McHugh) was based on a meta-analysis in which the authors actually clearly and definitively arrived at the OPPOSITE conclusion as Gee's interpretation, "“sexual abuse does not cause individuals to become gay, lesbian, or bisexual."
How does publishing something so demonstrably false and such a clear example of a blatant misuse of sources not get Gee in trouble with BYU? This seems like a huge embarrassment for Gee's employer. Doesn't it erode BYU's scholarly credibility when one of their professors is publishing such crap?
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Yahoo Bot
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Yahoo Bot »

I'm not an expert about BYU but I don't think BYU uses a tenure track.
_Philo Sofee
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Philo Sofee »

I think Gee realizes Egyptology is a dead end for him, so he is going for General Authority status.....
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_Dr Moore
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Re: BYU sociologist tells Gee to stay in his swim lane

Post by _Dr Moore »

Yahoo Bot wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:03 pm
I'm not an expert about BYU but I don't think BYU uses a tenure track.
BYU's version of tenure is "Continuing Status" -- like tenure, but with a temple recommend check. It automatically renews every year, assuming the temple recommend check is satisfied.
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