Indubitably. Salvation is much more important than clear thinking.No matter how bogus the rebuttal, people in the wards take comfort in knowing there is a rebuttal. The Interpreter has done its job.
Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
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Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
Yep, if parallels to Clarke's commentary don't offer strong evidence of a connection, then no parallels offer strong evidence of a connection.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My Blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/
My Blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/
Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
With only a few subject-noun changes, Kent Jackson's article could be re purposed to explain beautifully and forcefully why the Book of Mormon is not a historical text.
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Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
I guess the interesting follow up question for me is, do these people not see the double standard or do they see it and it doesn't bother them?
It's hard for me to understand since I never spent any significant time wrestling with the contrary evidence. The day I decided to wrestle with the contrary evidence with an open mind was the day I lost my belief. And specifically, I lost my belief because I realized that I would have to maintain a huge double standard of evidence to maintain that belief. I couldn't bring myself to do that.
I guess I just don't understand what makes these guys tick.
Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
My Blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/
My Blog: http://untanglingmybrain.blogspot.com/
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Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
I think they are so obsessed with supporting the team that they'll sacrifice logic. One sees that attitude of turning a blind eye to whatever the supposed "enemy" is saying regardless of the truth in many areas including politics. The team and its goals are paramount. So, attack the foes and support your friends.fetchface wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:15 pmI guess the interesting follow up question for me is, do these people not see the double standard or do they see it and it doesn't bother them?
It's hard for me to understand since I never spent any significant time wrestling with the contrary evidence. The day I decided to wrestle with the contrary evidence with an open mind was the day I lost my belief. And specifically, I lost my belief because I realized that I would have to maintain a huge double standard of evidence to maintain that belief. I couldn't bring myself to do that.
I guess I just don't understand what makes these guys tick.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen
Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
Are any of you concerned that Wayment and Wilson only gave a few examples? Why? to constrain the devastation to the JST by Clarke was Wayment asked top tone it down and not list/comment on the hundred instances they found?
Am i all wet here? is an exhaustive list and assessment of supposedly hundred instances around somewhere?
thanx
k
ps- i asked in an email to Wayment about 3 weeks ago, whether the second document Buck's theological dictionary was used by Joseph Smith on the JST- he replied that he had not investigated that but said he would be interested if someone did that- he added the does see Buck being used in the D&C!
The beat, i mean plagarism goes on and on and on.
Am i all wet here? is an exhaustive list and assessment of supposedly hundred instances around somewhere?
thanx
k
ps- i asked in an email to Wayment about 3 weeks ago, whether the second document Buck's theological dictionary was used by Joseph Smith on the JST- he replied that he had not investigated that but said he would be interested if someone did that- he added the does see Buck being used in the D&C!
The beat, i mean plagarism goes on and on and on.
Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
It isn't that Jackson fails to present some logic -- he does. His article raises intriguing questions. For instance, why DID Joseph change "unicorns" in one place (consistent with Clarke), but not in other places where "unicorn" or "unicorns" appears? Jackson did the research to show that yes, Joseph did cover at least one of those other "unicorn" passages in the JST. Obviously a contradiction - what gives?
I submit that the real problem is the logic of Jackson's implicit foundational assumption -- that Joseph sought for completeness and consistency in his works, and/or that God guided him to a place of completeness and consistency.
But of course he didn't, and He didn't. What a terrible place to start an academic perspective on Joseph Smith. There are hundreds of ways in which Joseph's translations, revelations, theology and his actions produced highly problematic contradictions, anachronisms, falsehoods, honest mistakes, etc.
I found Matthew Grey's summary of a (the?) primary motivation behind Joseph's translation enterprises to be simply perfect. That being "showing off", or as Grey puts it ever so gently:
(in Grey, Approaching Egyptian Papyri through Biblical Language, 2000)
In the framework of Joseph "showing off", Wayment's conclusions and Jackson's questions can both be valid simultaneously. Joseph never undertook the burden of being complete and consistent in any of his translations. Why does Jackson feel compelled to make it so with Wayment's JST discovery?
I submit that the real problem is the logic of Jackson's implicit foundational assumption -- that Joseph sought for completeness and consistency in his works, and/or that God guided him to a place of completeness and consistency.
But of course he didn't, and He didn't. What a terrible place to start an academic perspective on Joseph Smith. There are hundreds of ways in which Joseph's translations, revelations, theology and his actions produced highly problematic contradictions, anachronisms, falsehoods, honest mistakes, etc.
I found Matthew Grey's summary of a (the?) primary motivation behind Joseph's translation enterprises to be simply perfect. That being "showing off", or as Grey puts it ever so gently:
Matthew Grey wrote:display his erudition
(in Grey, Approaching Egyptian Papyri through Biblical Language, 2000)
In the framework of Joseph "showing off", Wayment's conclusions and Jackson's questions can both be valid simultaneously. Joseph never undertook the burden of being complete and consistent in any of his translations. Why does Jackson feel compelled to make it so with Wayment's JST discovery?
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Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
Kairos,
Regarding Buck's Theological Dictionary which you mentioned, here is my somewhat brief entry which may serve as an introduction to that work:
http://www.rickgrunder.com/parallels/mp77.pdf
Regarding Buck's Theological Dictionary which you mentioned, here is my somewhat brief entry which may serve as an introduction to that work:
http://www.rickgrunder.com/parallels/mp77.pdf
“I prefer tongue-tied knowledge to ignorant loquacity.”
― Cicero, De Oratore - Book III
― Cicero, De Oratore - Book III
Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
Rick
Thanx for the links and comment!
k
Thanx for the links and comment!
k
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Re: Joseph coulnd't possibly have relied on Adam Clarke
I would have to agree with Brant Gardner’s assessment of Kent Jackson’s article. http://mormondiscussions.com/viewtopic. ... 3#p1236733
And, in real life Kent Jackson is a total douche. His posting history here would made kiwi57 blush. Take a short trip down memory lane and look at some of his posts:
http://mormondiscussions.com/memberlist ... le&u=18269
And, in real life Kent Jackson is a total douche. His posting history here would made kiwi57 blush. Take a short trip down memory lane and look at some of his posts:
http://mormondiscussions.com/memberlist ... le&u=18269
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
Daniel C. Peterson, 2014