Doctor Scratch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:00 am
huckelberry wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:37 pm
No Mormon theology? I am halfway puzzled. How about Sterling Mcmurrin ,"The Theological Foundations of the Mormon religion" It was a bunch of years ago when I read it but I remember finding it thoughtful and very Mormon. Well I realize he held Mormon belief like Kishkumen does but that did not seem to harm the book.
I cannot help but think that there are all sorts of Mormon books that might be called theological. Why not the books by Talamage? For better or worse would not "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce Mckonkie qualify? (I have never read that but it gets mentioned)
I think you have a point, huckelberry, but I think the reality is that none of this theology is "official." It's not "official" Church doctrine. This is where you get that old critical complaint about people leaving the Church for "intellectual" reasons. The Mopologists have always claimed that this never happens: it's always because you wanted to drink beer, or watch pornography, or because you were "weak," etc. There is no way--per them--that you could ever leave the Church over "intellectual" or even *theological* reasons. And yet the explanations that the Church gives about some of its chief tenets are really lacking. E.g., the three-tiered heaven. Why? And, in all seriousness, what are the distinction between those three tiers?
I wrote a post some time ago in which I asked some pointed questions about the Mopologists' beliefs. One of the Brethren seemed to be saying that people in the lower kingdoms will not get to keep their genitals. Look: I get it. It's embarrassing. But is it true? Is this doctrine? Theologically speaking, what does this say about the Church's views on things like: The Afterlife; Procreation and Sexuality; Gender; and so on. Why not tackle these questions directly? I think that, if you asked the apologists, they'd make some dumb, dismissive remark about "casting pearls before swine," but the thing is: people are already laughing. They are already leaving the Church.
At some point, you've got to ask: What's left? What else is on offer?
Added Upon? Is that it?
Doctor Scratch, I think I see your point. The Doctrine and Covenants are official as can be but if a person has questions there is no official analysis. Three heavens? Are you sure it is not a more traditional seven, or one or an outlier five? No body is going to know beyond saying says so in Doctrine and Covenants. I am inclined to think that for all groups the answer, I do not know, is underused.
But Mormon beliefs can cause a person to wonder whether somethings make sense. It is more serious to observe something is confused than to observe there are things people do not know. Asking theological questions opens the possiblity of clarifying theological confusions.
I think that assertion that people leave the church because of a desire to sin is bit of an underhanded trick. After all everybody has at times some desires to sin. I do not think there is any way to completely protect oneself from the accusation. Then after all there are actually people who leave to sin. Or perhaps leave because they never found the church very persuasive so they feel they might as well sin when that is desired and seems to make sense.
There are a lot of people who struggle with the idea of the church's validity. That could be over doctrine coherence or just plane facts associated with the church.I believe a good percent of people who leave leave after struggling with such things. I think of myself as one like that. I struggled and thought till deciding it did not add up and I could not get my brain back to a believing condition. I thought I was serious but I cannot pretend that a desire to see and experience a wider range of things surely played not role at all. I am sure curiosity encouraged the destabilizing questions.
Perhaps it is best to confess that you have on occasion found that the church has annoying rules beyond the basic, don't kill,steel,lie or harm your neighbor and be a help instead of a problem Would It not be easier to get along with Mormon extra rules if one could believe the church is true?