The Rosebud MEGATHREAD

[Shulem]

Oh God.

More drama from the drama queen.

Spare me.

[Tator]

Another day in Punxsutawney.

[Rosebud]

I am the party who has been the victim of slander and libel. That happened because I was the less powerful person. For me that began in 2012, two full years before I finally decided to start my public documentation to the contrary.

The way to right the wrong is not to silence reality in the name of goodwill and stopping the “slander” and “libel.” The way to right the wrong is to let the truth be seen.

What happened to me isn’t unique.

What’s wrong here is that the world cares about men more than women. The women are slandered and libeled and all too many people rush in to defend the man who is guilty of slandering and libeling….. even though he does it for gain.

It isn’t slander or libel when it’s true. And truth shouldn’t be buried in the name of peace if the peace is false and especially if there are many victims of similar instances of slander and libel. There are. It’s an offender’s game.

And the fact that I’m articulating these truths doesn’t make me “mentally troubled.” It demonstrates that I know who I am, what the truth is, and what my rights are. It demonstrates that I have self-respect. It demonstrates that I care about all the women this is regularly happening to as men manipulate us for their own gain.

I’m angry about what you’ve all done with me and my name. And I have a right to be angry.

I’m not quite to the end of the debate, but I think the Midnight Mormons are right that everyone’s priority should be about really caring about people. That’s something the ex podcasters have left behind in their anger. I remember when I cared as much about the Mormon people as the Midnight Mormons do. I’ve since faced too much exclusion from my people to hold on to that value, but I think it was the right value to hold at that time just as the right value for me now is to move on and away from all this toxicity. So, for me, even though Mormonism all feels so far behind me now, I think the Midnight Mormons win the debate.

And RFM….. stop slandering me. Stop your libel. It’s pathetic. You’re smarter than that (I think). And don’t vault false victims while silencing real ones. There are good attorneys and there are crummy ones. The way an attorney treats people like me when we’re not your clients’ opposition demonstrates which kind of attorney you are.

[Lem]

And I never claimed “assault.” That’s a convenient sound bite for Kwaku and the Midnight Mormons, but it’s a gross oversimplification of the standard reality half of this planet faces on a regular basis.

I get that what needs to happen to resolve this ridiculousness is for me to speak in a bigger way.

No. No, no no no, no no no. And NO.

I think you are within your rights to (privately) reach out to Kwaku and tell him that word in inappropriate to use and that you would like him to stop doing it in public settings. By that I mean DON’T start another thread here, and endlessly ruminate out loud on it yet again. Just do something (adult, responsible and productive) about it.

Re calling you “mentally troubled,” that’s for a doctor to say and it’s wrong they still fall back on that, but you can’t stop people from expressing inappropriate opinions.

I would say, however, you are very immature and don’t have a good sense of how to handle conflict, and that there are aspects of your personality that are driving you to behave in a very negative and non-productive manner.

The problem is that I think both sides of this debate are dominated by limited paradigms that have little to do with the actually reality we’re all swimming in. That makes it hard for me to care about the things either side cares about.

If you really believed that we wouldn’t be getting these self-character-assassination threads anymore.

This just tells me you are still enmeshed in this idea that not only are there Mormon communities and Mormon leaders, but there is a singular ex-Mormon “community,” also with “leaders.” Not for me, and not for most others I have encountered, also social media is of course rife with this idea, just like every other bit of nonsense it is possible to find.

The debate was over Mormonism, true or false, as far as I know. An idea, a concept, a religion. There’s a Mormon way of thinking, and then the entire rest of the world, comprised of NOT- Mormon thinking. There aren’t two sides, and there definitely aren’t “ex-Mormon leaders.”

There are too many men talking about too much with too little insight into the lived experiences of 50% of the population.

The debate was about Mormon women? Oh wait, no it wasn’t.

[Lem]

I think the Midnight Mormons win the debate.

I thought the debate was about Mormon doctrine. If you believe they won, does that mean you are returning to the Mormon faith?

[Kukulkan]

[Rosebud]

RFM, I just listened to you talk about your professional contact whose health failed him. You used the experience to prove that you are “your brother’s keeper,” I assume, because the Midnight Mormons previous arguments about how much they care about the Mormon people were so strong in comparison to your assertions that you can be a critic without taking any responsibility for the harm that comes when people listen to you.

I would assert that you may be your brother’s keeper when your brother promotes a cause you support. You definitely have not been my “keeper.” You’ve helped people harm me more in an effort to support your own agenda.

You will “keep” those it serves you to keep….. even when you know full well they are wrong.

I’m not not on your side. I’m an ex-Mormon. Some might even assume I’m a secularist. I don’t think the brethren are particularly happy about me right now. Whatever. I don’t know that I care much or that it matters much.

But if you want to make a difference, be real. Be honest. Be authentic. Don’t just “keep” the people you think it serves you to “keep,” (whether you’re right about those assumptions or not.)

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Women have been using men to make arguments against each other since women first started fighting over men. This is now a meme thread -

[Lem]

RFM, I just listened to you talk about your professional contact whose health failed him. You used the experience to prove that you are “your brother’s keeper,” I assume, because the Midnight Mormons previous arguments about how much they care about the Mormon people were so strong in comparison to your assertions that you can be a critic without taking any responsibility for the harm that comes when people listen to you.

I would assert that you may be your brother’s keeper when your brother promotes a cause you support. You definitely have not been my “keeper.” You’ve helped people harm me more in an effort to support your own agenda.

You will “keep” those it serves you to keep….. even when you know full well they are wrong.

I’m not not on your side. I’m an ex-Mormon. Some might even assume I’m a secularist. I don’t think the brethren are particularly happy about me right now. Whatever. I don’t know that I care much or that it matters much.

But if you want to make a difference, be real. Be honest. Be authentic. Don’t just “keep” the people you think it serves you to “keep,” (whether you’re right about those assumptions or not.)

Clearly I wasn't specific enough when I suggested you don't endlessly ruminate out loud about past events.

I get that what needs to happen to resolve this ridiculousness is for me to speak in a bigger way.

No. No, no no no, no no no. And NO.

I think you are within your rights to (privately) reach out to Kwaku and tell him that word in inappropriate to use and that you would like him to stop doing it in public settings. By that I mean DON’T start another thread here, and endlessly ruminate out loud on it yet again. Just do something (adult, responsible and productive) about it.

I'm all for speaking up when things happen, I've done it here multiple times this year myself, but Rosebud, you are way past the stage where the damage to yourself outweighs any benefit.

[Rivendale]

Oh God.

More drama from the drama queen.

Spare me.

What was the song from ground hog day? Oh Cher and Sonny.

They say we're young and we don't know
We won't find out until we grow
Well I don't know if all that's true
'Cause you got me, and baby, I got you