Internet Mormons, Chapel Mormons, Critics, Apologists, and Never-Mo's all welcome!
https://discussmormonism.com/
I am not talking about a private feeling.
That is something that has always bothered me. For a father that wants his children to return to him he has a strange way of communicating. Whispering in individual ears rather than a collective bullhorn. And even worse using a third party to transmit his message.Chap wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:40 pmI am not talking about a private feeling.
I am talking about a public utterance that everybody can hear, and can agree that they heard uttered, under circumstances that make it clear that an extraordinarily powerful being is speaking and wishes to be known as such.
Rivendale, I wonder if your argument goes against your own point. You point to examples where the big bullhorn did not actually work. One might consider that perhaps in this world an alternative is being tried. People have to look into themselves to discover the light. It is not a trick pop quiz where we have to get a strange rule correct. We have to find our own light for moral value and caring for others. Discovery in ones own life might be far stronger than a bullhorn message.Rivendale wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:12 pmThat is something that has always bothered me. For a father that wants his children to return to him he has a strange way of communicating. Whispering in individual ears rather than a collective bullhorn. And even worse using a third party to transmit his message.Chap wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:40 pmI am not talking about a private feeling.
I am talking about a public utterance that everybody can hear, and can agree that they heard uttered, under circumstances that make it clear that an extraordinarily powerful being is speaking and wishes to be known as such.
The faith argument fails. Part of heaven turned away from god and they knew full well of all his attributes. There are a plethora of stories where angels and even god appears to people and they still turn away.
Why would god need alternatives?huckelberry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:19 pmRivendale, I wonder if your argument goes against your own point. You point to examples where the big bullhorn did not actually work. One might consider that perhaps in this world an alternative is being tried. People have to look into themselves to discover the light. It is not a trick pop quiz where we have to get a strange rule correct. We have to find our own light for moral value and caring for others. Discovery in ones own life might be far stronger than a bullhorn message.Rivendale wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:12 pmThat is something that has always bothered me. For a father that wants his children to return to him he has a strange way of communicating. Whispering in individual ears rather than a collective bullhorn. And even worse using a third party to transmit his message.
The faith argument fails. Part of heaven turned away from god and they knew full well of all his attributes. There are a plethora of stories where angels and even god appears to people and they still turn away.
for peoples sake, for their intellectual personal spiritual growth toward maturity . Leaving behind childish imitation of caring to enter real experience (perhaps we misunderstanding each other?)Rivendale wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:37 amWhy would god need alternatives?huckelberry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:19 pmRivendale, I wonder if your argument goes against your own point. You point to examples where the big bullhorn did not actually work. One might consider that perhaps in this world an alternative is being tried. People have to look into themselves to discover the light. It is not a trick pop quiz where we have to get a strange rule correct. We have to find our own light for moral value and caring for others. Discovery in ones own life might be far stronger than a bullhorn message.
If we are talking about the god of Christianity, is there evidence that anything works/worked better than the big bullhorn?huckelberry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:19 pmRivendale, I wonder if your argument goes against your own point. You point to examples where the big bullhorn did not actually work. One might consider that perhaps in this world an alternative is being tried. People have to look into themselves to discover the light. It is not a trick pop quiz where we have to get a strange rule correct. We have to find our own light for moral value and caring for others. Discovery in ones own life might be far stronger than a bullhorn message.Rivendale wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:12 pmThat is something that has always bothered me. For a father that wants his children to return to him he has a strange way of communicating. Whispering in individual ears rather than a collective bullhorn. And even worse using a third party to transmit his message.
The faith argument fails. Part of heaven turned away from god and they knew full well of all his attributes. There are a plethora of stories where angels and even god appears to people and they still turn away.
Looks like Christianity may peak at 32% around 2060. If so, the alternative to the bullhorn looks a bit weak.The World's Largest Religious Groups Over Time wrote:The religious profile of the world is rapidly changing, driven primarily by differences in fertility rates and the size of youth populations among the world’s major religions as well as by people switching faiths. If current trends continue Christians will remain the largest religious group by 2060 (32 percent of the world's population), but Islam will experience the fastest growth, with an expected increase from 24 percent to 31 percent of the global population over the next four decades. According to projections by the Pew Research Center, the number of Muslims will in fact nearly equal the number of Christians around the world by 2060.
You have said, separately, that your God spoke directly to you. If your God is not supernatural, how did that communication happen? Via email?KevinSim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:30 pmA deity that answers questions doesn't make sense to you, IHAQ? What about such a deity makes you think it doesn't make sense?[=IHAQ post_id=2808638 time=1667811172 user_id=239]
I have yet to find a version of deity that makes sense.What's keeping Latter-day Saints from relying on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? They rely on it, therefore that church is able to be relied upon, therefore it's reliable, by your definition. Relying on that church is reliable for the same reason.IHAQ wrote: It means "not able to be relied upon".IHAQ, I don't believe in a supernatural, all knowing, all powerful deity.IHAQ wrote:What would be the hallmarks of a leader of a religion that had been chosen by a supernatural, all knowing, all powerful deity ("God")?And if you found one, his characteristics would imply that God sent Him? Why go the indirect route? Why not just ask God if God gave permission to speak for Her/Him?IHAQ wrote:Personally I'd be looking for extreme consistency, unbelievable accuracy, impossible foresight etc.
Malkie, if Gods interest is limited to the Christian political party then the internal knowledge and experience I suggested would not be very relevant. We could perhaps skip the whole human project.malkie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:01 amIf we are talking about the god of Christianity, is there evidence that anything works/worked better than the big bullhorn?huckelberry wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:19 pmRivendale, I wonder if your argument goes against your own point. You point to examples where the big bullhorn did not actually work. One might consider that perhaps in this world an alternative is being tried. People have to look into themselves to discover the light. It is not a trick pop quiz where we have to get a strange rule correct. We have to find our own light for moral value and caring for others. Discovery in ones own life might be far stronger than a bullhorn message.
With the bullhorn, we are told that 1/3 of the host of heaven turned away, or 2/3 accepted god's plan. Without it, what fraction of the world population has failed to accept god's message? More or less than 1/3?
https://www.statista.com/chart/25572/wo ... over-time/
Looks like Christianity may peak at 32% around 2060. If so, the alternative to the bullhorn looks a bit weak.The World's Largest Religious Groups Over Time wrote:The religious profile of the world is rapidly changing, driven primarily by differences in fertility rates and the size of youth populations among the world’s major religions as well as by people switching faiths. If current trends continue Christians will remain the largest religious group by 2060 (32 percent of the world's population), but Islam will experience the fastest growth, with an expected increase from 24 percent to 31 percent of the global population over the next four decades. According to projections by the Pew Research Center, the number of Muslims will in fact nearly equal the number of Christians around the world by 2060.
If the most important reason for being here is to learn how to return back I would question using this method. The reason? Because this method is indistinguishable from human emotions. Emotions that are created and impacted by genetics, nature and the nurture of the family one grows up in.huckelberry wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:13 amfor peoples sake, for their intellectual personal spiritual growth toward maturity . Leaving behind childish imitation of caring to enter real experience (perhaps we misunderstanding each other?)
