Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:06 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:52 am
What does that actually mean? Can you give a concrete illustrative description of your paragraph above?
Also, when you talk about universe-coherence, and faith in the such, that’s a theistic position because I don’t know of any atheists, prominent or otherwise, who would describe the universe as coherent. It’s the theist or spiritualist that assigns coherency to the universe - they imbue it with human structuralism.
- Doc
The universe is intelligible, comprehensible, meaning,
we can know about it when we look, study, and test it, calculate, etc. It is that which we have faith in in order to do our math and physics, otherwise we wouldn't even try to. It stays the same, ,meaning we trust it, i.e., have faith it will continue being like it has been in order for us to learn about it. That is the faith Einstein was talking about for scientists. "The only incomprehensible thing about the universe is its comprehensible."
I’m not sure how you’re conflating Newtonian and Einsteinium physics with faith, but there you have it. You’re essentially saying because I expect an answer of 4 when I add 2 + 2, it’s equivalent to faith. That’s absurd.
Going back to “coherence” as it applies to the universe, let’s make sure we’re on the same page first:
Coherence - the quality of being logical and consistent
I view the universe as being chaotic, random, and acting without rhyme nor reason. It doesn’t mean that it’s not intelligible, as we’ve come to find out. <-
that isn’t faith. That’s just mathematics and a host of scientific disciplines using testable reasoning that produces consistent results. Literally science. No magic. No woo. Just science. This is your quote:
Faith in a God is no more idiotic than atheist faith in the Cosmos working coherently and intelligibly day by day so we can study it with our science. We all have faith of one thing or another, there is no other way.
That is a nonsense statement. You’re conflating an expectation in something undefinable and untestable (god) with an approach to measuring datasets that produces consistent results once tested and verified (science). Hell, even quantum mechanics breaks down once once you get to 10
-33 in size and 10
-43 in time. So much for “coherency”.
And if you really want your
to get twisted, try to wrap your mind around an amplituhedron:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplituhedron
There’s been a lot of hard work put in by women and men in this field, so to simply declare that their efforts are as faith-based as, say, someone doing yoga in the woods having a spiritual awakening is disrespectful and kind of sad. You’re conflating two approaches to understanding reality that are radically different. One takes a LOT of work while the other take a pair of lululemons and a tree.
- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.