Wow! LDS endorses national same-sex marriage bill

[Alphus and Omegus]

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/11 ... t-federal/

In an unexpected move, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gave its support Tuesday to a proposed federal law that would not only recognize all legal marriages but also codify ones between same-sex couples.

The Utah-based faith’s doctrine “related to marriage between a man and a woman is well known and will remain unchanged,” according to a news release posted to the church’s website. “We are grateful for the continuing efforts of those who work to ensure the Respect for Marriage Act includes appropriate religious freedom protections while respecting the law and preserving the rights of our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.”

It seems a somewhat of a reversal for the church, which famously put its members and a lot of money behind California’s Proposition 8 in 2008 to oppose same-sex marriage before it was legalized by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Some perspectives apparently have changed.

“We believe this approach is the way forward,” the release said. “As we work together to preserve the principles and practices of religious freedom together with the rights of LGBTQ individuals, much can be accomplished to heal relationships and foster greater understanding.”

The church’s remarks come after the act’s sponsors added an amendment to the House-passed bill exempting religious organizations from providing “services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods or privileges for the solemnization or celebration of a marriage.” Neither could the act be used to alter the tax-exempt status of any organization.

“For instance,” stated a one-page fact sheet provided by the office of Sen. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wisc., “a church, university, or other nonprofit’s eligibility for tax-exempt status…would not be affected by this legislation.”

The amendment also specified that the measure did not extend to polygamous marriages.

Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, remains unconvinced the amendment goes far enough in protecting the rights of institutions that may oppose same-sex marriage.

“Any potential threat to religious liberty must be met with a thorough and thoughtful defense,” he said through a spokesperson. “Current law, coupled with the Respect for Marriage Act, leaves certain religious organizations, educational institutions and individual exercise of religious beliefs more vulnerable to attack. I am actively working with colleagues on both sides of the aisle to shore up those vulnerabilities.”

Lee’s vote may not prove necessary, however. According to CNN, key senators heading up the effort believe they have the votes needed for it to pass and are calling on leadership to put it on the floor for a vote as soon as possible.

Utah’s four House representatives — all Republican and all Latter-day Saint — voted in favor of the act in the summer before the addition of the recent amendment and its exemptions for religious organizations.

[drumdude]

The church spent almost 100 million dollars to fight same-sex marriage in 2008.

Truly they are prophets, seers, and revelators.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

The church sees the PR writing on the wall. TSCC has to soften it's hard line stance on LGBTQ issues if wants to stem the hemorrhaging of members. This is finance driven to be sure.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

The mass exodus must be even worse than I thought for the Church to do this.

[Moksha]

What ways are open for the Church to muck this up? Will Presidents Nelson and Packer be allowed to address this issue?

[IHAQ]

The church’s remarks come after the act’s sponsors added an amendment to the House-passed bill exempting religious organizations, including faith-based universities, from providing “services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods or privileges for the solemnization or celebration of a marriage.” Neither could the act be used to alter the tax-exempt status of any organization.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/11 ... t-federal/

It's a free shot for the Church to now attach itself to the announcement of the bill. It changes nothing for the Church. They are giving nothing up, they don't need to change any policy or practice, and it costs them nothing.

“We believe this approach is the way forward,” the church release said. “As we work together to preserve the principles and practices of religious freedom together with the rights of LGBTQ individuals, much can be accomplished to heal relationships and foster greater understanding.”

...so long as we, the Church, don't have to do or change anything."

Nothing has changed here except the Church has learnt from the fallout from the Proposition 8 debacle. They have just made sure the bill doesn't affect them and are now grandstanding for the PR kudos they don't deserve. What they should be saying is that they couldn't care less what the bill does or doesn't change for people outside the Church, so long as their tax exempt status and right to discriminate remain intact. That would be honest.

I have some questions:
Did the federal bill actually need the endorsement of a minority cult religion?
If this is the way forward, but the Prop 8 debacle was the way forward back then - can we trust any Prophet to know the way forward on anything?

Allison Dayton, founder of the Lift and Love foundation for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, said the church’s message is “huge.”

“It answers, once and for all, the question, ‘Can members of the church support same-sex marriage?’ The answer is yes, and the church does, too [as long as it’s outside of the faith],” Dayton said. “This news is an enormous relief to families of gay children who can now comfortably shower their gay children with the same love and support they give their straight children who marry.”

Sorry Allison, I don't agree. Nothing has changed in the Church here. Try having an openly gay relationship inside BYU or within membership of the Church and see what happens. All that's changed is the Church going from activism against what non members do, to making sure they, the Church are insulated from federal laws. This is like you issuing a statement endorsing your neighbours decision to have something other than Turkey at Thanksgiving - it's really none of your business. What gay people do outside of membership in the Church is none of the Church's business. It can keep its meaningless and PR stunt endorsements to itself. Think about it, why should 15 old guys in Salt Lake City, running a minority cult religion, have any standing to comment on what people outside their faith can or cannot do under the law? It's hollow virtue signalling because they aren't changing any discriminatory policy or practice within their sphere of control.

Affirmation, a support group for LGTBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families and friends, “appreciates the work [the church] is doing with outside LGBTQ group to secure housing and employment rights,” Nathan Kitchen, the group’s president, said Tuesday, “as well as its support to codify marriage equality in the United States.”

Yet, a “great disconnect exists between the public sphere and the faith home of LGBTQ people, where Latter-day Saint families are offered less protections and equality within the church for their LGBTQ children than what is granted them by the laws of the land,” he said. “No amount of religious freedom success can compensate for failure within our spiritual home.”

Exactly. The Church remains an unsafe place for LGBTQ children and adults. This latest PR exercise changes nothing inside the faith. If you want your LGBTQ children to benefit from this bill, get them out of the Church. Now.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Remember a few years ago we were saying twenty years from now the cult will be gay friendly and claiming they were always gay friendly? Yeah, as Everybody Wang Chung said the exodus must be much, much bigger than we realize for them to move up the schedule. This is always about revenue streams, and if money is walking out the door over this, they’re going to change their tune.

- Doc

[IHAQ]

In a 1997 memo about the LDS Church's involvement in the campaign against gay marriage in Hawaii, the late Loren C. Dunn, then a general authority, noted that Hinckley approved Mormon participation but said "the church should be in a coalition and not out front by itself."
In the case of the Proposition 8, which supported a constitutional amendment to define marriage as solely between a man and a woman, the LDS Church only joined the Coalition to Protect Marriage in June after being asked by Catholic Archbishop George H. Niederauer of San Francisco, who presided over Utah Catholics for 11 years. The LDS First Presidency in a letter urged all California Mormons to give their time and money to the effort.

https://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?re ... i_11044660

Activism against the Church works (and I include leaving participation as activism). It is activism, over time, that has led to the Church taking a completely opposite position this time round, to the one it took in 2008. Was Thomas S. Monson a false Prophet then? When the money is threatened, the Prophet changes course - there's been numerous examples of that. So what does that tell us about the Church's real priority? If the Church truly believed same sex marriage was an egregious sin then it would be taking a stand against this bill, on moral grounds.

Here's what Oaks said a General Conference April 2022

That is also why the Lord has required His restored Church to oppose social and legal pressures to retreat from His doctrine of marriage between a man and a woman, to oppose changes that homogenize the differences between men and women or confuse or alter gender.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng
If the First Presidency and Apostles truly believed that the Lord requires His Church to oppose legal pressures to retreat from His doctrine of marriage between a man and a woman, then the Church would be opposing this bill. Supporting it flies in the face of what Oaks decreed over the pulpit during General Conference.

[Moksha]

The Bishopric Space Guild of Accountants perceived a slight problem with the tithing flow and demands that the Padisha President Nelson fix it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGqdE1NdMTg

Normally, sending in 50 legions of secretive Kirton McConkie denial attorneys would solve the problem, but something even more extreme is called for this time...

[jpatterson]

This is all a part of Dallin Oaks' long-time strategy of trying to erase the atrocities the LDS Corp. has heaped upon LGBTQ people.

Oaks has never acknowledged or apologized for saying gays and lesbians should be jailed for being themselves.

Oaks has never acknowledge or apologized for the harm caused to the LGBTQ community through the Corp.'s participation in Prop 8.

Oaks has never acknowledged or apologized for the harm caused by "The Policy" several years ago.

Instead, he looks for every opportunity he can to frame the Church as "supportive" of LGBTQ rights while never actually giving an inch on the Corp.'s position that they are apostates who will never have an opportunity for salvation. THAT's the Corp.'s official stance, and yet they're going to get tons of kudos as a result of this announcement.