View of the Hebrews

[Kishkumen]

Thanks, Rick. As I was reading Everybody Wang Chung’s post, I wondered where the chronologically impossible claim that Hyrum knew Ethan and Solomon came from. He did not. But then, he didn’t have to. The point of interest here is the influence this educational environment had on those who spent time in it. There was a clear agenda to proselytize and Christianize the Native Americans that was coupled with an old fashioned, even by that day’s standards, Classical education. There was a great deal of emphasis placed on teaching the students, including and especially the Native American students, to read Latin and Greek. I think some care is in order, some tempering of enthusiasm, but, on the other hand, this is precisely the kind of environment one ought to expect would have resulted in the three texts in question.

[Philo Sofee]

That was a spectacular podcast. I also listened to the John Dehlin Mormon Stories one on Dartmouth College influence on the Smith's. For me, the real education in my last 6 years has been to see the darn near comprehensive influence of the environment on Joseph Smith and Mormonism. The Church's brainwash on its members of Smith being in a vacuum and the only or even if only the major influence on him was God and revelation just does not hold up. Environment was everything, as it normally is for all human beings. Smith (and the Smith's) simply have never been an exception to this, though the church wishes they were.

[Fence Sitter]

It's funny how little things can be the beginnings for doubt or questions. I took a comparative religion class at BYU right after my mission, one of the few religion classes there that was of any value. I remember learning in that class about how the notion that refraining from coffee, tea, and strong drink was common in Smith environment. I was a bit surprised to learn that he had not received the WOW just through divine inspiration but had simply taken what was a local belief and given it a divine imprimatur. Now there is nothing inherently wrong with that process, but I grew up in a church that presented a hagiographical caricature of Smith as this uneducated ignorant farm boy who could barely write and who could not have accomplished what he did without God's direct intervention. Here I am decades later understanding that nothing Smith produced was original or even ahead of his time. Smith's genius was his ability to absorb what was around him, package it up and pass it off as instructions from God to gullible followers who were willing to give him their time and money for the privilege of listening to Smith pretend to talk for God.

Smith and Cowdery may not have actually read The View of the Hebrews but they certainly were involved in conversations with those who did.

[Moksha]

I wondered where the chronologically impossible claim that Hyrum knew Ethan and Solomon came from.

Cohorts at Dartmouth along with Solomon Spaulding's nephew.

[Kishkumen]

It's funny how little things can be the beginnings for doubt or questions. I took a comparative religion class at BYU right after my mission, one of the few religion classes there that was of any value. I remember learning in that class about how the notion that refraining from coffee, tea, and strong drink was common in Smith environment. I was a bit surprised to learn that he had not received the WOW just through divine inspiration but had simply taken what was a local belief and given it a divine imprimatur. Now there is nothing inherently wrong with that process, but I grew up in a church that presented a hagiographical caricature of Smith as this uneducated ignorant farm boy who could barely write and who could not have accomplished what he did without God's direct intervention. Here I am decades later understanding that nothing Smith produced was original or even ahead of his time. Smith's genius was his ability to absorb what was around him, package it up and pass it off as instructions from God to gullible followers who were willing to give him their time and money for the privilege of listening to Smith pretend to talk for God.

Smith and Cowdery may not have actually read The View of the Hebrews but they certainly were involved in conversations with those who did.

Yeah, I think that the LDS Church is primarily driven by present-timeline considerations. Whatever it may have meant in the time, the WoW functions to set Mormons apart from their environment from the time the Church first decided to make a big deal of a text that was, in the first instance, "not by way of commandment or constraint." It was that move, under Heber J. Grant was it?, that resulted in a sea change in the way the WoW was viewed. We lived in post-Grant Wow world, and the funny thing about that kind of change is that it also influences the way the history pre-Grant is viewed.

[dastardly stem]

I don't think Joseph had to have read View of the Hebrews or any of the other candidate books to come up with the Book of Mormon. He may have had to have heard of some of the ideas from somewhere...But that's what writing a book is. I think the ties with higher education that Joseph may have had from others is less interesting and more tenuous than many others tend to think. But even given some of it, I' still say its quite a feat for an uneducated, for the most part, Joseph to write the book. I certainly don't think that claim means magic is a good explanation though. I don't know if others helped him craft it, but I also don't know that it'd be impossible for him to do it on his own. And I don't know that there's much more of a story here than that. But I could be wrong.

[Kishkumen]

Cohorts at Dartmouth along with Solomon Spaulding's nephew.

Ah, OK. Thanks, Moksha.

[Kishkumen]

I don't think Joseph had to have read View of the Hebrews or any of the other candidate books to come up with the Book of Mormon. He may have had to have heard of some of the ideas from somewhere...But that's what writing a book is. I think the ties with higher education that Joseph may have had from others is less interesting and more tenuous than many others tend to think. But even given some of it, I' still say its quite a feat for an uneducated, for the most part, Joseph to write the book. I certainly don't think that claim means magic is a good explanation though. I don't know if others helped him craft it, but I also don't know that it'd be impossible for him to do it on his own. And I don't know that there's much more of a story here than that. But I could be wrong.

Good thoughts, stem. I agree.

[Doctor Steuss]

This seems to be concrete proof Joseph Smith had read The View of the Hebrews. https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/c ... 46/id/9871

Excerpt from exmormon reddit user monotonousgangmember.

In Times and Seasons, Nauvoo, Illinois, Vol. 3 (June 1, 1842) on page 814 (link), Joseph Smith writes:
[...] In order to this, we shall here make an extract from an able work: written exclusively on the subject of the Ten Tribes having come from Asia by the way of Bherings Strait, by the Rev. Ethan Smith, Pultney, Vt., who relates as follows: [...long excerpt...] ----Smith's view of the Hebrews. p. 220
Seems pretty cut & dry to me. He definitely knew about View of the Hebrews and clearly has read it. Specifically, he included the excerpt because he was trying to use it as proof of the Book of Mormon!
On the 20truths.information page on plagiarism it's mentioned "No direct evidence exists that would prove or disprove Joseph Smith had read View of the Hebrews." But, they then go on to cite the passage above as proof of him being aware of the book and its stories.
This seems like a strong indication that Smith having plagiarized ideas from View of the Hebrews is likely.

It's been a long (long) time since I read View of the Hebrews ("VOH" hereafter), but from what I recall, there was a significant amount of it that was essentially information/stories that were being commonly circulated. It wasn't so much that VOH was novel in any way, it was more-so that VOH took all of the prevalent stories and ideas, and compiled them into a single source with added biblical cross-referencing.

It isn't that Joseph may have read VOH; it's that VOH establishes that the theory of Native Americans being Hebrews was widespread in frontier America.

[MG 2.0]

I' still say its quite a feat for an uneducated, for the most part, Joseph to write the book.

I would agree.

As far as the milieu of Joseph Smith’s world playing a part in the restoration I wouldn’t disagree. Some here on this board were around when The Worlds of Joseph Smith: A Bicentennial Conference at the Library of Congress was held years ago. Some of the presentations dealt with just this subject.

For example, it’s not a big surprise to anyone that masonry was used as a template as the temple endowment was organized and written. Templates for organization and inspiration saturated Joseph’s world. But so much was missing.

That’s where Joseph’s inspired inquiries of the Lord came into play as God revealed elements of the restoration to Joseph. Joseph had the schema of some of the lost/corrupted truths available to him as he then added line upon line to the scaffolding that was already in place.

Joseph didn’t grow up in a vacuum.

Personally, I think this is the way God works. He adds to what is already there and available to some extent.

Regards,
MG