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Does the Church still blame the delay until 1978 of allowing blacks the priesthood and temple ordinances on God, or have they admitted yet that it was a human mistake of Church leaders? Do they still claim it was God's wish/fault?

Yes, the current apologetic is to throw God under the bus. It’s a great move, given the fact God’s non-existence makes him incapable of defending herself.

DCP:

“ so that all will understand, I need to confess right now that I’m a believer who accepts the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as genuine prophets and apostles — the Lord plainly seems to have permitted the ban on ordaining blacks to the priesthood to continue until June 1978. However it originated, that seems to me significant.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... d-ban.html

They claim they do not know why God directed the ban.

The issue with that explanation, or lack thereof, is it acknowledges they can't communicate well enough with Him to even answer what seems to be a simple question. God talks directly to Nelson to tell him about how long church meetings should be, how old one has to be to go on a mission, whether gay people should marry and even what name to call the church, but somehow, He can't explain to his chosen mouthpiece here on earth why the church arbitrarily denied basic membership privileges to people of color for 150 years.

What is it a prophet does?

Fence Sitter wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:43 am

They claim they do not know why God directed the ban.

The issue with that explanation, or lack thereof, is it acknowledges they can't communicate well enough with Him to even answer what seems to be a simple question. God talks directly to Nelson to tell him about how long church meetings should be, how old one has to be to go on a mission, whether gay people should marry and even what name to call the church, but somehow, He can't explain to his chosen mouthpiece here on earth why the church arbitrarily denied basic membership privileges to people of color for 150 years.

What is it a prophet does?

A common response that apologists employ for such questions is that knowing the answer is not required for your eternal progression.

Of course, for someone who feels that this is a cop-out, and whose testimony is thus weakened, it may well affect their eligibility for the church ordinances that lead to "eternal life".

Fence Sitter wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:43 am

They claim they do not know why God directed the ban.

The issue with that explanation, or lack thereof, is it acknowledges they can't communicate well enough with Him to even answer what seems to be a simple question. God talks directly to Nelson to tell him about how long church meetings should be, how old one has to be to go on a mission, whether gay people should marry and even what name to call the church, but somehow, He can't explain to his chosen mouthpiece here on earth why the church arbitrarily denied basic membership privileges to people of color for 150 years.

What is it a prophet does?

I think it’s a bit difficult to ascertain when a change in the church programs and/or the way it functions one way or the other is directly breathed into the prophet’s heart/mind from God vs. those changes being the result of counsels at the highest levels based upon information and input from councils spread geographically all over the world.

In answer to your question concerning what a prophet does:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

I think that it is important to not discount the importance of councils within the church.

Are you under the impression that God is somehow under obligation to answer every and all questions posed to Him?

Regards,
MG

Fence Sitter wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:43 am

They claim they do not know why God directed the ban.

The issue with that explanation, or lack thereof, is it acknowledges they can't communicate well enough with Him to even answer what seems to be a simple question. God talks directly to Nelson to tell him about how long church meetings should be, how old one has to be to go on a mission, whether gay people should marry and even what name to call the church, but somehow, He can't explain to his chosen mouthpiece here on earth why the church arbitrarily denied basic membership privileges to people of color for 150 years.

What is it a prophet does?

The same thing happened during Joseph Smith's day. God could give exact instructions on how to build Joseph's house but instructions on polygamy were considered vague. God gave intricate instructions on temple ordinances but felt it unnecessary to tell people not to own other people. Something doesn't track.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

So, apparently all we need to do is to ask god - who knew?

MG 2.0 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:35 pm

Are you under the impression that God is somehow under obligation to answer every and all questions posed to Him?

Yeah, I'm under the impression that God has an obligation to not let his prophets lead the Church into dark places. Imputing that Blacks are under a curse because of their actions in the pre-existence, or that they are descended from Cain, are both pretty dark. Denying a people blessings because of their race is a pretty dark place to go.

Morley wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:37 pm

MG 2.0 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:35 pm

Are you under the impression that God is somehow under obligation to answer every and all questions posed to Him?

Yeah, I'm under the impression that God has an obligation to not let his prophets lead the Church into dark places. Imputing that Blacks are under a curse because of their actions in the pre-existence, or that they are descended from Cain, are both pretty dark. Denying a people blessings because of their race is a pretty dark place to go.

You know the history behind the priesthood ban on those of African decent. It’s not as simple as you portray it. Or DO you know the history? And the people/culture that influenced the views of those that said what they said.

What do the current views that are held…including the “we don’t know” comments…tell you? They may tell you something different than what others hear/interpret. This would be due to competing influences, knowledge, and experiences that you have had vs. what others have had.

That’s the rub. And that’s where disagreements lie.

Regards,
MG

malkie wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:29 pm

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

So, apparently all we need to do is to ask god - who knew?

If you ask God to plant your garden for you what would be your expectations?

If you ask God to fill your mind with all of the world’s knowledge what would be your expectations?

Regards,
MG