We Do Not Support John Dehlin

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dastardly stem
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by dastardly stem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:00 pm
Lowrance wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:52 am
I never said inappropriate sexual conduct. You did.
Then what? It's a poorly executed letter, and it tells me nothing.
I want this to be over with for sure...But I do want to clarify how I think this letter may be useful, something I haven't noticed before.

Point of the letter:

"We do not support John Dehlin"

Allegations include:

"John Dehlin has long used Mormon and x-Mormon women to mask his bad behavior."

I don't know the extent of this...But I think it's true or has happened.

"He has used our talents, time, movements and reputation to bolster his brand and enrich himself."

That seems true. But in the realm of social media influence that's part of the game. So nothing nefarious or problematic there.

" He takes advantage of vulnerable people in crisis, who are in legitimate need of help and community."


meh...A bit vague and pretty difficult to demonstrate, I'd think. I know it was hard, but I wouldn't categorize my loss of faith as a crisis. John does though, so perhaps at least a little bit of truth here.

"When women come forward with critiques of his behavior or allegations of wrongdoing he retaliates by lashing out at them and attempting to publicly discredit them."


This is definitely spot on. His mindset has most certainly been, when women have offered complaints that he is innocent and they are wacky or otherwise problematic.

"We aren’t people who protect the Mormon Church, and we also don’t protect men who put the community at risk— whether they are Mormon or not.

We have had enough."


Fair enough.

"Many of us have worked with him in the past, and want to make clear that we no longer do and don’t encourage any other women to do so. It’s not safe. We refuse to be used as a mask for abuse."

This feels like an uncalled for ambiguous attack. "Abuse" is a pretty strong word and I don't know that it applies very well. But people use words to their advantage and I can't always tell what they mean. It's vague and pretty useless.

"We think it’s a better use of everyone’s time and investment to support other folks building community and providing resources for exiting Mormonism. If you need therapy, you should seek out a professional who is actually licensed by the state to provide those services. If you need community (as we all do), you should seek out people who don’t regularly tear down women who disagree with them. It’s time we reconsider giving so much energy and support to someone who has the potential to do so much harm."

To be fair many people have to the potential to do a ton of harm. And surely we shouldn't be giving someone support who causes harm. But not much is said here. I mean true, but vague a bit and little odd.

"John Dehlin often attempts to paint criticism as an “attack” and is an expert at making himself the victim."

yes. True.

"This is not an attack. It’s a clarification of values. Our values are to support and believe women."

Ok.
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drumdude
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by drumdude »

Right, they’re not claiming sexual abuse.

They’re just claiming John abuses women.

:roll:
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

There’s literally nothing stopping them from using their talents, time, movements, and reputation to bolster their brands and enrich themselves. Stop giving men your best, sisters!

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
Dr Exiled
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Dr Exiled »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:16 pm
There’s literally nothing stopping them from using their talents, time, movements, and reputation to bolster their brands and enrich themselves. Stop giving men your best, sisters!

- Doc
I like the no nonsense advice. Dehlin his accusers might be lost in victimhood. Sure, injuries need to be redressed, but, exaggerated injuries shouldn't be compensated. In a legal contest, the tendency is to grab at as much as possible and so victimhood can be exaggerated. However, the danger is that if the other side proves that your client is lying or exaggerating, it can spell the end of the case or a really low damage award.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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pistolero
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by pistolero »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:46 pm
I like the no nonsense advice. Dehlin his accusers might be lost in victimhood. Sure, injuries need to be redressed, but, exaggerated injuries shouldn't be compensated. In a legal contest, the tendency is to grab at as much as possible and so victimhood can be exaggerated. However, the danger is that if the other side proves that your client is lying or exaggerating, it can spell the end of the case or a really low damage award.
Her claim is for $254,430. Seems a lot. There are a number of points, who knows, she might win on some of them? but it seems clear that her youtube sob-a-thon might throw more spanners in the works in terms of facing the counter claim and unsubstantiated claims against yer man John.

When I was a lad, having the victim mentality or following the victimhood ideology was most definitely considered a negative trait or behaviour. These days, victimhood is de rigueur for any budding wokester or modern ethically evolved individual. I see it in my children at times and it really grates on me.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:16 pm
There’s literally nothing stopping them from using their talents, time, movements, and reputation to bolster their brands and enrich themselves. Stop giving men your best, sisters!
This is totally what is on my mind. Has Stephen R. Covey been cancelled yet? Is his Habit 1 of being proactive still a thing?

No idea who wrote the 7 habits of self-destructive people https://www.madisonmorrigan.com/blog/7- ... I've-people, but Habits 1, 2, 6 and 7 ring true in this case.
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Kishkumen
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Kishkumen »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:16 pm
There’s literally nothing stopping them from using their talents, time, movements, and reputation to bolster their brands and enrich themselves. Stop giving men your best, sisters!

- Doc
But you see, because some of them did not succeed in using John, they felt used by him, and now they blame him for their frustrated ambitions. They waste more time and energy on him instead of building something themselves.
“The past no longer belongs only to those who once lived it; the past belongs to those who claim it, and are willing to explore it, and to infuse it with meaning for those alive today.”—Margaret Atwood
Marcus
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Marcus »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:16 pm
There’s literally nothing stopping them from using their talents, time, movements, and reputation to bolster their brands and enrich themselves. Stop giving men your best, sisters!

- Doc
Good advice, and as far as I know, most of these women have already taken it. They’ve moved on, and that’s pretty much all you can do. Just run as far away as possible from the Mormon based assumptions and stereotypes, and live a life as separate as possible from any Mormon influence.
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Kishkumen
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Kishkumen »

Yeah, most of these women have probably moved on, and good for them. I would guess that a number of these signatures are expressions of solidarity.
“The past no longer belongs only to those who once lived it; the past belongs to those who claim it, and are willing to explore it, and to infuse it with meaning for those alive today.”—Margaret Atwood
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Salvete
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Salvete »

Shulem wrote: I tend to agree, Dr Moore. Mormonism is about religious belief and practice. This thread is not about Mormonism. It doesn't belong here. I would just as well see all these threads moved so we can focus on Mormonism in this forum like we are supposed to do.
LOL, are you for real? This board is about something called “mopologetics” and more specifically about DCP. There are very few doctrinal discussions here.
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Shulem
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Re: We Do Not Support John Dehlin

Post by Shulem »

Salvete wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:02 am
Shulem wrote: I tend to agree, Dr Moore. Mormonism is about religious belief and practice. This thread is not about Mormonism. It doesn't belong here. I would just as well see all these threads moved so we can focus on Mormonism in this forum like we are supposed to do.
LOL, are you for real? This board is about something called “mopologetics” and more specifically about DCP. There are very few doctrinal discussions here.

Yes, I am for real! No need to lecture me on what this board is about, you twit. Look, I've been a contributor of Mormon Discussions since the very first day Shades started his original board, many, many, years ago. I was Paul Osborne, one of the first to register an account on his new board.

So piss off. :evil:

I AM for real, and I have my own opinion. So deal with it.
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